NGC Grade Results including a couple of crackouts

Up until this submission I had only submitted three coins to be graded
before. Two went to PCGS about a dozen years ago and one to NGC a
couple of years ago. This time I sent in six to NGC and I just got
them back yesterday. I'll list them separately and tell a bit about
each including my grade and the NGC grade, for those who find this
interesting. Each of these coins was bought on ebay over the past few
years. Two were slabbed and the other four were raw. I'm not sure
what this says about my grading skills.

1. Rhode Island Commemorative. I bought this a couple of months ago
in an old Hallmark MS65 slab. I cracked it out before I sent it in.
This coin has hardly a mark on it. I think I only found three small
ticks. It has interesting tone that my wife called "grape juice
toning". I think it's quite an attractive coin and was pleased when I
got it. I thought it was a lock MS65 and a shot MS66. My local
dealer said it looked like an MS65 to him but said it could come back
anywhere from an MS64 to an MS66. NGC gave it an MS64. I will
probably keep it because I like it much better than my NGC MS65 Rhode
Island and I think it's a nicer coin. The only thing I can figure is
the luster is a bit subdued and kept it from the higher grade.

2. 1917 Walking Liberty Half. This one came in an old green (10
digit serial number) PCI holder that I got over two years ago. This
one was cracked out also. It has beautiful original thick frost and
golden orange tone. I thought this one was too nice for an MS63.
When I first showed it to the dealer he said it was a nice 63 but
wouldn't upgrade. I decided to try it anyway because I thought it had
a good chance. When I showed it to him again he decided that it may
have a chance after all. NGC agreed with me and gave it the MS64
grade I wanted. I had been thinking of selling it but I don't think I
can part with it now.

3. 1853 Quarter with Arrows and Rays. When I bought this one in 1998
it was listed as VF-XF. When I got it I thought it was a full EF40,
but left it listed in my inventory as VF35. When I showed it to the
dealer he said it should get graded EF. NGC gave it an EF45, which
might be a bit generous, but it does have a nice original look and no
significant marks, so I can see how it might get the bump.

4. 1831 Bust Half. I bought this one in 1998 as an AU53. I listed
it in my inventory as an AU50. It has nice light toning and plenty of
luster with few marks. It does lack some detail at the tip of the
bust on the obverse and the top of the wing on the reverse. The motto
is a bit weak in the usual place opposite the bust. Apparently what I
thought was wear was a weakness in the strike because NGC gave this an
AU58. I have no real experience grading these so I can't argue, but I
am pleased.

5. 1806 Bust Quarter. I bought this one as a G-VG in 1997, one of
the first coins I bought on ebay. This coin was featured in one of
Stu's grading challenges early this year.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4523

I graded it G6 which was also the most frequent grade in the grading
challenge (though there was quite a spread of guesses). NGC agreed
with the consesus and gave it a G6. This particular coin is the one
that I wonder why I sent in. I may sell it but probably could have
gotten about the same price raw as I would get in the slab. Oh well,
that's $16 down the drain.

6. 1804 Half Cent, spiked chin. This one was listed as XF when I
bought it in 1999. It was also featured in one of Stu's grading
challenges.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=892

The grade spread was pretty large with EF45 just edging out EF40 by
one vote, but grades ranging from PO1 to MS65. I suspect some people
didn't try too hard. My personal grade was EF45. The dealer assured
me it would grade AU. The dealer was right, but he didn't expect it
get the AU58 grade NGC gave it. It is a nice coin and it somehow
looks better in that NGC holder, but I certainly never expected that
grade.

Overall I am pleased. One coin came back lower than I expected, two
came back at what I expected and three came back higher. Fortunately,
I bought the Rhode Island at an MS64 price so I didn't get hurt bad by
that one. I have a couple more coins I may send with him to Baltimore
to drop off to NGC for me.

It is possible to get some good deals on ebay if you try hard, or at
least it was. My most recent purchase in this group was the one
disappointment. I've also gotten a few lemons on ebay so you have to
watch your step.

On 30 Nov 2004 09:03:41 -0800, (Randy Thompson) is
alleged to have written:

Up until this submission I had only submitted three coins to be graded
before. Two went to PCGS about a dozen years ago and one to NGC a
couple of years ago. This time I sent in six to NGC and I just got
them back yesterday. I'll list them separately and tell a bit about
each including my grade and the NGC grade, for those who find this
interesting. Each of these coins was bought on ebay over the past few
years. Two were slabbed and the other four were raw. I'm not sure
what this says about my grading skills.

1. Rhode Island Commemorative. I bought this a couple of months ago
in an old Hallmark MS65 slab. I cracked it out before I sent it in.
This coin has hardly a mark on it. I think I only found three small
ticks. It has interesting tone that my wife called "grape juice
toning". I think it's quite an attractive coin and was pleased when I
got it. I thought it was a lock MS65 and a shot MS66. My local
dealer said it looked like an MS65 to him but said it could come back
anywhere from an MS64 to an MS66. NGC gave it an MS64. I will
probably keep it because I like it much better than my NGC MS65 Rhode
Island and I think it's a nicer coin. The only thing I can figure is
the luster is a bit subdued and kept it from the higher grade.


You did well on that Hallmark slab. My experience (admittedly limited) says most
are sliders by todays standards.

2. 1917 Walking Liberty Half. This one came in an old green (10
digit serial number) PCI holder that I got over two years ago. This
one was cracked out also. It has beautiful original thick frost and
golden orange tone. I thought this one was too nice for an MS63.
When I first showed it to the dealer he said it was a nice 63 but
wouldn't upgrade. I decided to try it anyway because I thought it had
a good chance. When I showed it to him again he decided that it may
have a chance after all. NGC agreed with me and gave it the MS64
grade I wanted. I had been thinking of selling it but I don't think I
can part with it now.


Nice upgrade!


3. 1853 Quarter with Arrows and Rays. When I bought this one in 1998
it was listed as VF-XF. When I got it I thought it was a full EF40,
but left it listed in my inventory as VF35. When I showed it to the
dealer he said it should get graded EF. NGC gave it an EF45, which
might be a bit generous, but it does have a nice original look and no
significant marks, so I can see how it might get the bump.


That coin frequently comes poorly struck. What you thought was wear was likely
just poor metal flow. Those rays were a bad idea....

4. 1831 Bust Half. I bought this one in 1998 as an AU53. I listed
it in my inventory as an AU50. It has nice light toning and plenty of
luster with few marks. It does lack some detail at the tip of the
bust on the obverse and the top of the wing on the reverse. The motto
is a bit weak in the usual place opposite the bust. Apparently what I
thought was wear was a weakness in the strike because NGC gave this an
AU58. I have no real experience grading these so I can't argue, but I
am pleased.


*ching*


6. 1804 Half Cent, spiked chin. This one was listed as XF when I
bought it in 1999. It was also featured in one of Stu's grading
challenges.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=892

The grade spread was pretty large with EF45 just edging out EF40 by
one vote, but grades ranging from PO1 to MS65. I suspect some people
didn't try too hard. My personal grade was EF45. The dealer assured
me it would grade AU. The dealer was right, but he didn't expect it
get the AU58 grade NGC gave it. It is a nice coin and it somehow
looks better in that NGC holder, but I certainly never expected that
grade.


Oddly, a commercial AU58 prices just about where an EAC 45 would. It's a nice
coin and a definite keeper!

It is possible to get some good deals on ebay if you try hard, or at
least it was. My most recent purchase in this group was the one
disappointment. I've also gotten a few lemons on ebay so you have to
watch your step.

So what if the game is rigged? If you don't bet, you can't win! - Lazarus Long


Bruce

I'd say that the 1806 quarter is by far the rarest coin in the group - being
that it is slabbed as a G-6 and actually IS a G-6. I've never seen one
accurately graded, but have seen at least two hundred of them overgraded.
And yours is quite problem-free and attractive, to boot!

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
om...
Up until this submission I had only submitted three coins to be graded
before. Two went to PCGS about a dozen years ago and one to NGC a
couple of years ago. This time I sent in six to NGC and I just got
them back yesterday. I'll list them separately and tell a bit about
each including my grade and the NGC grade, for those who find this
interesting. Each of these coins was bought on ebay over the past few
years. Two were slabbed and the other four were raw. I'm not sure
what this says about my grading skills.

1. Rhode Island Commemorative. I bought this a couple of months ago
in an old Hallmark MS65 slab. I cracked it out before I sent it in.
This coin has hardly a mark on it. I think I only found three small
ticks. It has interesting tone that my wife called "grape juice
toning". I think it's quite an attractive coin and was pleased when I
got it. I thought it was a lock MS65 and a shot MS66. My local
dealer said it looked like an MS65 to him but said it could come back
anywhere from an MS64 to an MS66. NGC gave it an MS64. I will
probably keep it because I like it much better than my NGC MS65 Rhode
Island and I think it's a nicer coin. The only thing I can figure is
the luster is a bit subdued and kept it from the higher grade.

2. 1917 Walking Liberty Half. This one came in an old green (10
digit serial number) PCI holder that I got over two years ago. This
one was cracked out also. It has beautiful original thick frost and
golden orange tone. I thought this one was too nice for an MS63.
When I first showed it to the dealer he said it was a nice 63 but
wouldn't upgrade. I decided to try it anyway because I thought it had
a good chance. When I showed it to him again he decided that it may
have a chance after all. NGC agreed with me and gave it the MS64
grade I wanted. I had been thinking of selling it but I don't think I
can part with it now.

3. 1853 Quarter with Arrows and Rays. When I bought this one in 1998
it was listed as VF-XF. When I got it I thought it was a full EF40,
but left it listed in my inventory as VF35. When I showed it to the
dealer he said it should get graded EF. NGC gave it an EF45, which
might be a bit generous, but it does have a nice original look and no
significant marks, so I can see how it might get the bump.

4. 1831 Bust Half. I bought this one in 1998 as an AU53. I listed
it in my inventory as an AU50. It has nice light toning and plenty of
luster with few marks. It does lack some detail at the tip of the
bust on the obverse and the top of the wing on the reverse. The motto
is a bit weak in the usual place opposite the bust. Apparently what I
thought was wear was a weakness in the strike because NGC gave this an
AU58. I have no real experience grading these so I can't argue, but I
am pleased.

5. 1806 Bust Quarter. I bought this one as a G-VG in 1997, one of
the first coins I bought on ebay. This coin was featured in one of
Stu's grading challenges early this year.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4523

I graded it G6 which was also the most frequent grade in the grading
challenge (though there was quite a spread of guesses). NGC agreed
with the consesus and gave it a G6. This particular coin is the one
that I wonder why I sent in. I may sell it but probably could have
gotten about the same price raw as I would get in the slab. Oh well,
that's $16 down the drain.

6. 1804 Half Cent, spiked chin. This one was listed as XF when I
bought it in 1999. It was also featured in one of Stu's grading
challenges.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=892

The grade spread was pretty large with EF45 just edging out EF40 by
one vote, but grades ranging from PO1 to MS65. I suspect some people
didn't try too hard. My personal grade was EF45. The dealer assured
me it would grade AU. The dealer was right, but he didn't expect it
get the AU58 grade NGC gave it. It is a nice coin and it somehow
looks better in that NGC holder, but I certainly never expected that
grade.

Overall I am pleased. One coin came back lower than I expected, two
came back at what I expected and three came back higher. Fortunately,
I bought the Rhode Island at an MS64 price so I didn't get hurt bad by
that one. I have a couple more coins I may send with him to Baltimore
to drop off to NGC for me.

It is possible to get some good deals on ebay if you try hard, or at
least it was. My most recent purchase in this group was the one
disappointment. I've also gotten a few lemons on ebay so you have to
watch your step.

Bruce Hickmott wrote:

On 30 Nov 2004 09:03:41 -0800, (Randy Thompson) is
alleged to have written:

Up until this submission I had only submitted three coins to be graded
before. Two went to PCGS about a dozen years ago and one to NGC a
couple of years ago. This time I sent in six to NGC and I just got
them back yesterday. I'll list them separately and tell a bit about
each including my grade and the NGC grade, for those who find this
interesting. Each of these coins was bought on ebay over the past few
years. Two were slabbed and the other four were raw. I'm not sure
what this says about my grading skills.

1. Rhode Island Commemorative. I bought this a couple of months ago
in an old Hallmark MS65 slab. I cracked it out before I sent it in.
This coin has hardly a mark on it. I think I only found three small
ticks. It has interesting tone that my wife called "grape juice
toning". I think it's quite an attractive coin and was pleased when I
got it. I thought it was a lock MS65 and a shot MS66. My local
dealer said it looked like an MS65 to him but said it could come back
anywhere from an MS64 to an MS66. NGC gave it an MS64. I will
probably keep it because I like it much better than my NGC MS65 Rhode
Island and I think it's a nicer coin. The only thing I can figure is
the luster is a bit subdued and kept it from the higher grade.


You did well on that Hallmark slab. My experience (admittedly limited) says most
are sliders by todays standards.

2. 1917 Walking Liberty Half. This one came in an old green (10
digit serial number) PCI holder that I got over two years ago. This
one was cracked out also. It has beautiful original thick frost and
golden orange tone. I thought this one was too nice for an MS63.
When I first showed it to the dealer he said it was a nice 63 but
wouldn't upgrade. I decided to try it anyway because I thought it had
a good chance. When I showed it to him again he decided that it may
have a chance after all. NGC agreed with me and gave it the MS64
grade I wanted. I had been thinking of selling it but I don't think I
can part with it now.


Nice upgrade!

3. 1853 Quarter with Arrows and Rays. When I bought this one in 1998
it was listed as VF-XF. When I got it I thought it was a full EF40,
but left it listed in my inventory as VF35. When I showed it to the
dealer he said it should get graded EF. NGC gave it an EF45, which
might be a bit generous, but it does have a nice original look and no
significant marks, so I can see how it might get the bump.


That coin frequently comes poorly struck. What you thought was wear was likely
just poor metal flow. Those rays were a bad idea....

4. 1831 Bust Half. I bought this one in 1998 as an AU53. I listed
it in my inventory as an AU50. It has nice light toning and plenty of
luster with few marks. It does lack some detail at the tip of the
bust on the obverse and the top of the wing on the reverse. The motto
is a bit weak in the usual place opposite the bust. Apparently what I
thought was wear was a weakness in the strike because NGC gave this an
AU58. I have no real experience grading these so I can't argue, but I
am pleased.


*ching*

6. 1804 Half Cent, spiked chin. This one was listed as XF when I
bought it in 1999. It was also featured in one of Stu's grading
challenges.

http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=892

The grade spread was pretty large with EF45 just edging out EF40 by
one vote, but grades ranging from PO1 to MS65. I suspect some people
didn't try too hard. My personal grade was EF45. The dealer assured
me it would grade AU. The dealer was right, but he didn't expect it
get the AU58 grade NGC gave it. It is a nice coin and it somehow
looks better in that NGC holder, but I certainly never expected that
grade.


Oddly, a commercial AU58 prices just about where an EAC 45 would. It's a nice
coin and a definite keeper!

It is possible to get some good deals on ebay if you try hard, or at
least it was. My most recent purchase in this group was the one
disappointment. I've also gotten a few lemons on ebay so you have to
watch your step.

So what if the game is rigged? If you don't bet, you can't win! - Lazarus Long

Bruce

Lazarus Long!

You are the first person I've found that knows who he is. I read Robert Heinlein's books during the long days and nights at sea with the US Navy.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ng&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...in&btnG=Search

JAM

JAM

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:03:37 -0500, Bruce Hickmott
wrote:

On 30 Nov 2004 09:03:41 -0800, (Randy Thompson) is
alleged to have written:

1. Rhode Island Commemorative.

You did well on that Hallmark slab. My experience (admittedly limited) says most
are sliders by todays standards.

That's odd. Before I bid I searched the Collectors Universe forum for
Hallmark and mostly found positive comments, including some who
thought they may have been a bit conservative. It's the only one I've
ever owned so I don't have much of an opinion. I do like the coin
though.

2. 1917 Walking Liberty Half.

Nice upgrade!

Yes, and I think it's well deserved. Of course I'm looking through
"owners eyes".

3. 1853 Quarter with Arrows and Rays.

That coin frequently comes poorly struck. What you thought was wear was likely
just poor metal flow. Those rays were a bad idea....

I wasn't aware of that and I now own three of them. Despite there
popularity as a one year type they aren't scarce. The guy who sold it
to me didn't know it either since I got it for $33, which I thought
was a good deal even back then.

I just dropped another one off with the dealer to take to Baltimore to
submit for me. It should be an AU if it doesn't get bagged. The
obverse surfaces are a bit scruffy but the guy I bought it from said
it came out of an ANACS AU53 holder. Maybe he forgot to mention that
was before the Brillo application.

4. 1831 Bust Half.

*ching*

It is a nice price bump, but certainly not the only one in this group.


5. ?? What, no comment on the quarter? I guess it really didn't
need a comment though.

6. 1804 Half Cent, spiked chin.

Oddly, a commercial AU58 prices just about where an EAC 45 would. It's a nice
coin and a definite keeper!

But I thought I was giving it the comercial grade. That shows what I
know. This is another one I thought I got a good deal on when I
bought it, but now seems like a great bargain. I paid under $160 for
it. Yes, definitely a keeper now.

Thanks for the comments Bruce.
--
Randy

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:25:54 -0600, "James Higby"
heezerbumfrool[at]hotmail[dot]com wrote:

I'd say that the 1806 quarter is by far the rarest coin in the group - being
that it is slabbed as a G-6 and actually IS a G-6. I've never seen one
accurately graded, but have seen at least two hundred of them overgraded.
And yours is quite problem-free and attractive, to boot!

Thanks. I wasn't aware of the overgrading problem on these, but I
haven't really looked at many.

Anyone care to tell me the Browning variety? Not that it matters, but
I'm curious.
--
Randy

I'd say B-3, an R-1 variety. Although I have quite a bit of experience
attributing large cents, I have little with these, so others may wish to
disagree.

Please inform us when and if the coin goes up for sale.

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:25:54 -0600, "James Higby"
heezerbumfrool[at]hotmail[dot]com wrote:

I'd say that the 1806 quarter is by far the rarest coin in the group -
being
that it is slabbed as a G-6 and actually IS a G-6. I've never seen one
accurately graded, but have seen at least two hundred of them overgraded.
And yours is quite problem-free and attractive, to boot!

Thanks. I wasn't aware of the overgrading problem on these, but I
haven't really looked at many.

Anyone care to tell me the Browning variety? Not that it matters, but
I'm curious.
--
Randy

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:36:40 -0600, "James Higby"
heezerbumfrool[at]hotmail[dot]com wrote:

I'd say B-3, an R-1 variety. Although I have quite a bit of experience
attributing large cents, I have little with these, so others may wish to
disagree.

Please inform us when and if the coin goes up for sale.

Thanks. I don't have the refernce on these, but I like to be
complete. Now I need to get the Overton number on the Bust Half. I
guess I would need to image it first, unless we have a psycic here.

I was just looking over the coins and updating my database with the
new grades. I noticed a hairline across the bust of this quarter that
looks new and that I don't remember seeing before. It only shows at
certain angels and wouldn't affect the grade at this level but I can't
help wonder when it got there. It could be from going in and out of a
flip somewhere between the time I dropped it off with the dealer and
when it was slabbed. No big deal, but a bit disturbing. fortunately
I didn't find any on the higher grade coins.

I've discovered that FA posts here make a difference, so I will post
one if I decide to sell it. As a matter of fact, I posted an FA post
today that you might want to check out.

--
Randy

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:54:33 GMT, amnet (Randy Thompson)
is alleged to have written:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:03:37 -0500, Bruce Hickmott
wrote:

On 30 Nov 2004 09:03:41 -0800, (Randy Thompson) is
alleged to have written:

1. Rhode Island Commemorative.

You did well on that Hallmark slab. My experience (admittedly limited) says most
are sliders by todays standards.

That's odd. Before I bid I searched the Collectors Universe forum for
Hallmark and mostly found positive comments, including some who
thought they may have been a bit conservative. It's the only one I've
ever owned so I don't have much of an opinion. I do like the coin
though.



I've seen only a few hallmark slabs, like I said. The uncs seemed sliders to me,
but I didn't have any problems with their circulated grades. The folks in CU
have likely seen WAY more of these than I, I'd take their opinion over mine
without hesitation.

Bruce

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:46:57 -0500, Bruce Hickmott
wrote:

I've seen only a few hallmark slabs, like I said. The uncs seemed sliders to me,
but I didn't have any problems with their circulated grades. The folks in CU
have likely seen WAY more of these than I, I'd take their opinion over mine
without hesitation.

Well, you think PCGS and NGC unc early coppers are all sliders too, so
how much should I value your opinion.


--
Randy