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#1
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do not want
collectors to have access to any material excavated by archaeologists. Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions. One leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been excavated, regardless of provenance. It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical archaeologists against continuation of the present free collecting environment are nothing more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true motive, which is to secure exclusive control of access to all "archaeological source material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins. Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true intentions of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will eventually become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins. Paul Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless critic of ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing this time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as to advance that destructive goal. The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you to lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its state of origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few ancient coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be important to document provenance of such common objects, before radical archaeologists began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing looting of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That allegation is being presented to the public as though it were scientifically established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis for which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented. I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my opinion the real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to deprive collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause. Dave Welsh www.classicalcoins.com -----Original Message----- From: ] On Behalf Of romanpeddler Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of jumping the backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would be the government that creates the problem by their restrictions that create the market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or even store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This is really being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit untouched and unresearched if not for collectors. I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum which most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set the standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling of archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the preservation of these materials in these financial times. Why not have the archeological people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and separate out what is of importance and what is not. The government could then either release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or for sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and subsidized digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be legally obtained. |
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#2
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
Dave, this is simply because archaeologists are thieves themselves and many
hoard for their own private and hidden collections. Also, they don't want any "artifact wealth" in the hands of private citizens, hoarding it all for their museums and themselves. They use the "loss of provenance and loss of proper research" as an excuse toward this end. This is also why entire nations are becoming involved in stealing rightfully owned artifacts from private collections, even those that are over a century old. It is a greed grab. "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do not want collectors to have access to any material excavated by archaeologists. Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions. One leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been excavated, regardless of provenance. It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical archaeologists against continuation of the present free collecting environment are nothing more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true motive, which is to secure exclusive control of access to all "archaeological source material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins. Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true intentions of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will eventually become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins. Paul Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless critic of ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing this time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as to advance that destructive goal. The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you to lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its state of origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few ancient coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be important to document provenance of such common objects, before radical archaeologists began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing looting of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That allegation is being presented to the public as though it were scientifically established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis for which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented. I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my opinion the real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to deprive collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause. Dave Welsh www.classicalcoins.com -----Original Message----- From: ] On Behalf Of romanpeddler Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of jumping the backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would be the government that creates the problem by their restrictions that create the market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or even store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This is really being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit untouched and unresearched if not for collectors. I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum which most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set the standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling of archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the preservation of these materials in these financial times. Why not have the archeological people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and separate out what is of importance and what is not. The government could then either release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or for sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and subsidized digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be legally obtained. |
#4
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
A few years back a stupid female archaeologist on Time Team totally ruined a
Roman bronze coin by very harshly cleaning it. I emailed Time Team suggesting that she is never allowed near a coin again. Billy "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... James, What you say is perhaps true of some archaeologists but I don't think that most in the discipline are really like that. It is the radical faction that is causing all these difficulties. Before Colin Renfrew began his anticollecting campaign, collectors and archaeologists were allies. Dave Welsh "James Weston" wrote in message ... Dave, this is simply because archaeologists are thieves themselves and many hoard for their own private and hidden collections. Also, they don't want any "artifact wealth" in the hands of private citizens, hoarding it all for their museums and themselves. They use the "loss of provenance and loss of proper research" as an excuse toward this end. This is also why entire nations are becoming involved in stealing rightfully owned artifacts from private collections, even those that are over a century old. It is a greed grab. "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do not want collectors to have access to any material excavated by archaeologists. Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions. One leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been excavated, regardless of provenance. It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical archaeologists against continuation of the present free collecting environment are nothing more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true motive, which is to secure exclusive control of access to all "archaeological source material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins. Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true intentions of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will eventually become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins. Paul Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless critic of ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing this time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as to advance that destructive goal. The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you to lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its state of origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few ancient coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be important to document provenance of such common objects, before radical archaeologists began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing looting of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That allegation is being presented to the public as though it were scientifically established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis for which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented. I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my opinion the real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to deprive collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause. Dave Welsh www.classicalcoins.com -----Original Message----- From: ] On Behalf Of romanpeddler Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of jumping the backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would be the government that creates the problem by their restrictions that create the market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or even store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This is really being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit untouched and unresearched if not for collectors. I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum which most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set the standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling of archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the preservation of these materials in these financial times. Why not have the archeological people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and separate out what is of importance and what is not. The government could then either release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or for sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and subsidized digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be legally obtained. |
#5
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Stupid Female Archaeologists [was Collectors vs. Archaeologists]
The Nickle Numismatic Collection of Greek coins [at the time, a very
important collection] was ruined by the idiocy of an ignorant and incompetent female curator who sent them all out to be polished: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unidroit-L/message/647 There seems to be no limit to the incompetence, negligence and rapacity of those put in charge of coins and other antiquities that have been placed in the custody of source state academic institutions and cultural ministries. Nepotism and favoritism are rife, and those appointees who do not endanger artifacts they are responsible for by ignorance and stupidity, all too often steal them. If one had to select custodial candidates for artifacts based upon knowledge, competence, honesty and reliablility, collectors would rank far above most curators and officials in museums and cultural ministries. It is only the best institutions whose standards exceed that which the typical collector would provide. Dave Welsh "note.boy" wrote in message ... A few years back a stupid female archaeologist on Time Team totally ruined a Roman bronze coin by very harshly cleaning it. I emailed Time Team suggesting that she is never allowed near a coin again. Billy "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... James, What you say is perhaps true of some archaeologists but I don't think that most in the discipline are really like that. It is the radical faction that is causing all these difficulties. Before Colin Renfrew began his anticollecting campaign, collectors and archaeologists were allies. Dave Welsh "James Weston" wrote in message ... Dave, this is simply because archaeologists are thieves themselves and many hoard for their own private and hidden collections. Also, they don't want any "artifact wealth" in the hands of private citizens, hoarding it all for their museums and themselves. They use the "loss of provenance and loss of proper research" as an excuse toward this end. This is also why entire nations are becoming involved in stealing rightfully owned artifacts from private collections, even those that are over a century old. It is a greed grab. "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do not want collectors to have access to any material excavated by archaeologists. Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions. One leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been excavated, regardless of provenance. It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical archaeologists against continuation of the present free collecting environment are nothing more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true motive, which is to secure exclusive control of access to all "archaeological source material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins. Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true intentions of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will eventually become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins. Paul Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless critic of ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing this time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as to advance that destructive goal. The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you to lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its state of origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few ancient coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be important to document provenance of such common objects, before radical archaeologists began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing looting of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That allegation is being presented to the public as though it were scientifically established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis for which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented. I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my opinion the real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to deprive collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause. Dave Welsh www.classicalcoins.com -----Original Message----- From: ] On Behalf Of romanpeddler Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of jumping the backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would be the government that creates the problem by their restrictions that create the market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or even store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This is really being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit untouched and unresearched if not for collectors. I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum which most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set the standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling of archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the preservation of these materials in these financial times. Why not have the archeological people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and separate out what is of importance and what is not. The government could then either release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or for sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and subsidized digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be legally obtained. |
#6
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
Something is a miss here.... SUBJECT LINE
---------------------------------------------------- "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... The Nickle Numismatic Collection of Greek coins [at the time, a very important collection] was ruined by the idiocy of an ignorant and incompetent female curator who sent them all out to be polished: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unidroit-L/message/647 There seems to be no limit to the incompetence, negligence and rapacity of those put in charge of coins and other antiquities that have been placed in the custody of source state academic institutions and cultural ministries. Nepotism and favoritism are rife, and those appointees who do not endanger artifacts they are responsible for by ignorance and stupidity, all too often steal them. If one had to select custodial candidates for artifacts based upon knowledge, competence, honesty and reliablility, collectors would rank far above most curators and officials in museums and cultural ministries. It is only the best institutions whose standards exceed that which the typical collector would provide. Dave Welsh "note.boy" wrote in message ... A few years back a stupid female archaeologist on Time Team totally ruined a Roman bronze coin by very harshly cleaning it. I emailed Time Team suggesting that she is never allowed near a coin again. Billy "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... James, What you say is perhaps true of some archaeologists but I don't think that most in the discipline are really like that. It is the radical faction that is causing all these difficulties. Before Colin Renfrew began his anticollecting campaign, collectors and archaeologists were allies. Dave Welsh "James Weston" wrote in message ... Dave, this is simply because archaeologists are thieves themselves and many hoard for their own private and hidden collections. Also, they don't want any "artifact wealth" in the hands of private citizens, hoarding it all for their museums and themselves. They use the "loss of provenance and loss of proper research" as an excuse toward this end. This is also why entire nations are becoming involved in stealing rightfully owned artifacts from private collections, even those that are over a century old. It is a greed grab. "Dave Welsh" wrote in message ... The stance radical archaeologists have taken indicates that they do not want collectors to have access to any material excavated by archaeologists. Instead, they want it all kept as "public property" by institutions. One leading radical archaeologist has even gone so far as to advocate prohibiting the sale of any artifact that has presumably been excavated, regardless of provenance. It has been alleged that arguments advanced by radical archaeologists against continuation of the present free collecting environment are nothing more than a smoke screen cleverly put up to disguise their true motive, which is to secure exclusive control of access to all "archaeological source material" including such common artifacts as ancient coins. Moneta-L listreaders should be under no illusions as to the true intentions of these radical archaeologists. If they get their way, it will eventually become impossible to continue private collecting of ancient coins. Paul Barford comes to Moneta-L not to explore the truth as a bona fide participant in our discussions, but as your enemy - a relentless critic of ancient coin collecting who intends to prevent you from continuing this time-honored and socially beneficial activity. His true objective in participating in discussions on Moneta-L is to manipulate them so as to advance that destructive goal. The measures Paul Barford advocates would make it impossible for you to lawfully acquire any ancient artifact that does not have provenance traceable to its find spot, with proof of licit export from its state of origin or to its presence in a collection prior to 1970. Very few ancient coins have such a provenance. No one had ever thought it would be important to document provenance of such common objects, before radical archaeologists began lecturing collectors (and the public) about how we are causing looting of archaological sites by collecting unprovenanced artifacts. That allegation is being presented to the public as though it were scientifically established truth, rather than what it really is - a mere hypothesis for which no verifiable evidence has ever been presented. I do not believe that this allegation can be proven, and in my opinion the real "moral lepers" in this controversy are those who seek to deprive collectors of their rights without demonstrating just cause. Dave Welsh www.classicalcoins.com -----Original Message----- From: ] On Behalf Of romanpeddler Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: Subject: [Moneta-L] Collectors VS Arcfheologist This is a very wide subject that is being covered and instead of jumping the backs of collectors, why not go after the real bad guys. These would be the government that creates the problem by their restrictions that create the market for artifacts including coins. They have no way to catolog or even store correctly the thousands of coins that are being dug up. This is really being done by collectors. It would seem that the loot would sit untouched and unresearched if not for collectors. I take pride in my collection and have created my own private museum which most collectors do. Hats off to the Brits for common sense. They set the standard by which all other countries should follow in the handling of archeological finds. Most countries have no capital for the preservation of these materials in these financial times. Why not have the archeological people oversee the digs, inspect the recovered artifacts and separate out what is of importance and what is not. The government could then either release the unwanted artuifacts to the finders if privately found or for sale thru their agencies if covered by government authorized and subsidized digs.Both sides would then have access to materials that could be legally obtained. |
#7
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Rockbridge" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: STUPID FEMALE ARCHAEOLOGISTS Arizona, nothing wrong with the subject line. You just need to brush up on your reading skills. Something is a miss here.... SUBJECT LINE ---------------------------------------------------- Hello I would say somone needs to brush-up on there TROLL SKILLS myself. Lorrie S. Mark B." Johnny Pride" "James Weston" "Geoff Rockbridge" |
#8
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
"Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in message news ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Rockbridge" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: STUPID FEMALE ARCHAEOLOGISTS Arizona, nothing wrong with the subject line. You just need to brush up on your reading skills. Something is a miss here.... SUBJECT LINE ---------------------------------------------------- Hello I would say somone needs to brush-up on there TROLL SKILLS myself. Lorrie S. Mark B." Johnny Pride" "James Weston" "Geoff Rockbridge" Anyone want to bet they're all the same person? That's pretty common for obnoxious troll sock puppets. |
#9
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
In , on 01/28/2009
at 05:45 PM, "mazorj" said: I would say somone needs to brush-up on there TROLL SKILLS myself. Lorrie S. Mark B." Johnny Pride" "James Weston" "Geoff Rockbridge" Anyone want to bet they're all the same person? That's pretty common for obnoxious troll sock puppets. I only had posts from 2 of them in my keep, but it was interesting to see that the posting hosts were the same, as was some of the other header info. None of it proves that they are the same, but it's certainly unusual Nick |
#10
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Collectors vs. Archaeologists
"mazorj" wrote in message ... "Arizona Coin Collector" wrote in message news ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Rockbridge" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: STUPID FEMALE ARCHAEOLOGISTS Arizona, nothing wrong with the subject line. You just need to brush up on your reading skills. Something is a miss here.... SUBJECT LINE ---------------------------------------------------- Hello I would say somone needs to brush-up on there TROLL SKILLS myself. Lorrie S. Mark B." Johnny Pride" "James Weston" "Geoff Rockbridge" Anyone want to bet they're all the same person? That's pretty common for obnoxious troll sock puppets. You forgot the latest troll, Bob Golden |
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