Tech question for you, Bob!

I have a recorder- please don't laugh- a JC Penney 3331. The quality
is pretty good, except for one problem. I aligned the azimuth and
height with an ORIGINAL (all caps for someone else) Audiotex alignment
tape ($5 at the store I get all my 8 track stuffs from). However, the
right channel is a bit quieter.

I made some recordings with the Audacity program, and amplified the
right to find out how many dB quieter it was- around 6 dB quieter on
almost all of the tapes I tried. When I make recordings on it, the
program is dead center on other machines, but not on the recorder.
(Before I aligned the azimuth, when I made recordings the previous
recording could be heard in the right channel of other players that
*are* in alignment; now there's nothing of the previous recording
remaining on any deck. Good thing, obviously.)

I understand you can't properly diagnose without checking it out in
person, but is one of the preamp stages going?

An update: Playing a mono recording I made, perfectly balanced using a
tone, comes thru the headphones on the unit perfectly balanced- which
is something of a relief. And the meters during playback moved in
proper unison, indicating the balance was dead on.

Also, I stuck a tape in, pressed record, and recorded nothing. I amped
the static it made and the right channel was off by .2 dB in Audacity.
(I've found that Audacity can be off by .5 dB, plus or minus.)

SO, to make a long story short (too late?), the trouble is in the
outputs on the back of the unit, the wires used to connect the deck to
my computer, the inputs to the computer, or something in the soundcard.

Wish me luck... LOL!

On 1 Jan 2006 18:42:50 -0800, wrote:

I have a recorder- please don't laugh- a JC Penney 3331. The quality
is pretty good, snip

It's by Panasonic...not too bad.

except for one problem. I aligned the azimuth and
height with an ORIGINAL (all caps for someone else) Audiotex alignment
tape ($5 at the store I get all my 8 track stuffs from). However, the
right channel is a bit quieter.

I made some recordings with the Audacity program, and amplified the
right to find out how many dB quieter it was- around 6 dB quieter on
almost all of the tapes I tried. When I make recordings on it, the
program is dead center on other machines, but not on the recorder.
(Before I aligned the azimuth, when I made recordings the previous
recording could be heard in the right channel of other players that
*are* in alignment; now there's nothing of the previous recording
remaining on any deck. Good thing, obviously.) snip

Obviously, your head height was off...common problem with these
things.

I understand you can't properly diagnose without checking it out in
person, but is one of the preamp stages going? snip

OK, so let's get some information up front. When you say that the
Penney's recorder is "quieter" on the right channel, is it quieter on
all four programs, or just Prgm 1?

Is this on all tapes (prerecorded, recorded on another machine, tapes
recorded on that machine) or just on certain tapes? If so, which
ones?

When you run the Audiotex tape, are the VU meters equal on the 1 KHz
tone, and when they are, is that tone coming from directly in the
center of both channels?

Once I have that information, I can get closer to your problem with
certitude. As it sounds right now, though, it sounds as if just the
right channel playback gain is either maladjusted or has a component
fault. If a quieter right channel happens only on Pgm 1 on all tapes,
there could be a tape path problem, which is more probable on some
Panasonic machines that use an angled upper tape guide before the head
surface.

Be advised: Even the original Audiotex alignment cart wasn't too
good. They only specify ±4 dB on ALL tones, which is unsuitable for a
good electrical alignment. Plus, they even admit that they're
"duplicated" tapes, not individually run off on a magnetically
calibrated machine, as are "real" alignment tapes. Thus, you see,
those fraud tapes on eBay are even more useless than many realize.
However, the Audiotex tape will get you close enough to find a
problem, but don't try to set any absolute 0 VU levels and expect them
to be calibrated...they're not. At best, even a "real" Audiotex test
cart is just a troubleshooting tool. In the hands of a jackass, it
can really screw up a deck badly...as we already know.

dB

On 1 Jan 2006 21:33:57 -0800, wrote:

An update: Playing a mono recording I made, perfectly balanced using a
tone, comes thru the headphones on the unit perfectly balanced- which
is something of a relief. And the meters during playback moved in
proper unison, indicating the balance was dead on.

Also, I stuck a tape in, pressed record, and recorded nothing. I amped
the static it made and the right channel was off by .2 dB in Audacity.
(I've found that Audacity can be off by .5 dB, plus or minus.)

SO, to make a long story short (too late?), the trouble is in the
outputs on the back of the unit, the wires used to connect the deck to
my computer, the inputs to the computer, or something in the soundcard.

Wish me luck... LOL! snip

Good troubleshooting technique. It now sounds as if the playback amp
gain is probably OK, if you're getting a center tone on headphones. If
it is centered on both the cans and on the meters, there's either a
cabling problem or your sound card is hosed up...not unusual. I've
seen step attenuator problems on Creative crap be off more than 4 or 5
dB from L to R channel. This could be your problem; the test is to
simply reverse the patch cords. If the problem's before the sound
card, it will follow the "rolling" of the cords; if it's in the sound
card, there will be change. Swapping one channel for the other like
that is also called "frogging," for obvious reasons.

dB

8-track decks have to be aligned for EVERY TAPE THEY PLAY, just like a
VHS video deck- to get optimum sound playback.

there's a reason that some decks started showing up with externally
adjustable tracking knobs in the 1970's

can you imagine a VHS deck with no tracking adjustment ? disaster.

same holds for an 8-track. The alignment tape gets it dead center for
"most" tapes- but you will still have tapes that come along with
variations in cart dimensions, that will play off a bit. If you don't
believe me, take a dial caliper and measure various carts- you will see
a variation of .030" or more amongst carts- that means the tape head is
also moving by that much from cart to cart- a LOT, being the average
track width is only about .030"

and many were recorded off to begin with from the factory.

this is why 8-track is a "hands on" format- it pays great dividends,
but you have to put the work into it in maintenance.

any diehard tracker will eventually have a machine with a external
tracking knob, or leave the cover loose so he can adjust for
off-tracked tapes. I was just doing that yesterday, from Beatles tape
to Byrds, quite a difference on my Pioneer HR-99, needed adjustment

another option is, remove any tapes that ghost track on a certain
machine, and just don't play them

Well, Bob, I started this whooole thread for something I should have
checked out first! The cable has a 'rough spot'- it shorts out in an
off-position (if this makes sense...). I have the cable set up
*properly* now and did the Audacity thing- the right channel was off by
..5 dB- and like I said, I've found Audiacity can be off by .5 dB plus
or minus.

I'd heard that Technics (by Panasonic) made this model, and I picked it
up for $25 at that record store I got the Audiotex tape from. I use
the tape just to set up alignment; I don't have the proper equipment
for the other stuff on the tape. My hearing is very good (I can hear
the carrier signal on RCA's CD-4 quadradiscs) and all I do is run the
tape deck thru an amp, decrease bass all the way and amp the treble,
put on the headphones, crank the volume... and adjust the head to
maximum distortion (or until the ears bleed- whatever happens first).

I was at that store today to get a replacement belt; the owner and I
were talking about quad and its carrier signal and he gave me a copy of
Elvis's "Aloha from Hawaii" on vinyl. I plan on getting a quad
receiver, a linear-tracking Technics turntable, and a quad 8 track tape
recorder and set up my own little 'label'. :-D I'd like to eventually
start a fun-business and transfer stuff (lps, 78s, 8 tracks, cassettes)
to CD (or cassette if necessary) for people. Not to make money, but
just for the *fun* of it. Oh, and to build my own music library too.
LOL.

Oh- I watched "High Fidelity" last night- it was pretty good. I want
John Cusak's apartment in that movie! I spotted a nice Panasonic
recorder in his huge pile of a stereo system.

"any diehard tracker will eventually have a machine with a external
tracking knob, or leave the cover loose so he can adjust for
off-tracked tapes. I was just doing that yesterday, from Beatles tape
to Byrds, quite a difference on my Pioneer HR-99, needed adjustment"

Well, Nudo, what do you do then when you want to *record* a tape? It's
best, in my opinion, to have the deck as-close-to-perfectly aligned so
your recordings will play properly on other machines. I can handle a
bit of what is properly called *CROSSTALK*, if I know it's the tape's
fault and not the machine's.

Yet another update- I ran, simultaneously, "(Just Like) Starting Over"
from John & Yoko's "Double Fantasy" on 8-track and CD. The JCP deck
ran right at roughly the same speed at the CD and the sound quality was
*flawless*. This blows the Realistic TR-802 right outta the water.
"Abbey Road" sounded so muddy on the Realistic. It sounds a bit
treble-deprived on the JCP bit much more detail. A big ol' :-D from
me!

Bob- what ere the specs for the TR-801 and 802? I had an 800- AC
motor, I think- at one time and it sounded pretty good- probably
between the two decks I just mentioned. Do you know the specs for that
one, by chance?

I'm getting reeeeally geeky right now, ain't I?

On 2 Jan 2006 20:02:57 -0800, wrote:

"any diehard tracker will eventually have a machine with a external
tracking knob, or leave the cover loose so he can adjust for
off-tracked tapes. I was just doing that yesterday, from Beatles tape
to Byrds, quite a difference on my Pioneer HR-99, needed adjustment"

Well, Nudo, what do you do then when you want to *record* a tape? It's
best, in my opinion, to have the deck as-close-to-perfectly aligned so
your recordings will play properly on other machines. I can handle a
bit of what is properly called *CROSSTALK*, if I know it's the tape's
fault and not the machine's. snip

Nudo, as usual, is full of ****. Unless the deck is a real POS (many
are), there is NO reason to fiddle with the height adjustment between
routine alignments, nor azimuth, either. After properly setting up
both my Wollensaks and the Sanyo and Panasonic car decks, I NEVER
heard mistracking at all. You just have to do it once, and do it
right. Nudo's such a meathead I'm sure he hasn't the slightest idea
of what he's doing in there. His ignorance about magnetic tape in
general should give anyone "pause to cause."

dB

On 2 Jan 2006 21:01:55 -0800, wrote:

Bob- what ere the specs for the TR-801 and 802? snip

Rat Shack's own literature on these pieces of garbage said they'd go
out to 7 KHz on the top and only 80 Hz on the bottom, and I think they
were even cheating on those specs.

I had an 800- AC motor, I think- at one time and it sounded pretty good- probably
between the two decks I just mentioned. Do you know the specs for that
one, by chance? snip

I don't have anything on Rat Shacks anymore, but I do recall the
published freq response specs on that 801, because I had to try to
line one up for someone once. I told him to just throw it out.

Friends don't let friends buy Rat Shack.