How many 'collect' non-functioning pens?

Bernadette,

it doesn't matter whether they should have or
shouldn't.

I think this is the point at which our positions begin t odiverge.

so basically you're saying that as long as no one *intends* something bad by
the words they say, no one is allowed to be offended? Or at least they're
not allowed to express that they are offended. That would be nice if the
world was that way. But we're human (well, at least I am!) and guess, what,
humans are not always rational in their responses.

"Serious collector" captures the meaning in a parsimonious way... Can't
imagine any other term one can use to describe these folks that couldn't
be misconstrued in some way. Suffice it to say (?) that the term
"serious collector" is widely used and accepted to connote a level of
expertise that distinguishes him/her from most collectors. Is that ok,
or is it still offensive?

we've gotten off track. The overall tone of the post gave an impression of
elitism to some people. Simple as that. the fact that you and I are
dissecting the concept of "serious collector" is a signficant departure. I
agree, I don't think that there are any words you can use that might not
cause some to feel either offended or brushed aside. Though "high-stakes"
might be slightly better. After all, QH specifically mentioned the
"thousands-of-dollars range."

There is a similar reaction among non-FP people and FP people. In fact, we
had this discussion (albeit much more friendly) on RS recently. I've had
family and friends who treated my enjoyment of my pens with disdain and even
disgust. They can't fathom why I would spend $30 on a pen! it's *just* a
pen. And heaven forbid they find out that for one of my pens I actually
paid more than $100. I think the reaction of the "casual user" (still not
accurate of course) to the "serious collector" is a similar feeling. A
sense that because we don't spend 1000s of dollars our intent is not serious
and our property not valuable. Or that because we use our pens, we have
devalued them. I'll admit, I don't understand spending $1000s of dollars on
a pen. But that applies to me only. *I* could not do it.

how often have people on pen groups made fun of those who buy the rollerball
and BP pens that cost hundreds of dollars (perhaps 1000s)? Many times. It's
human nature to create cliques and it's human nature to be disdainful of
such cliques. When a topic like this comes up, someone's gonna get upset.

I wish I could make it clear that I am not myself really offended by any of
this. I said I "take issue with" the terminology in QH's post. Only
because I knew it would be divisive. But avoiding such is almost
impossible in any part of life today. And of course, in saying as much, I
made it more divisive. :P I didn't explain that so it appeared that I
personally was upset by the post. I wasn't. I still am not. I merely said
"i take issue with this terminology and i don't understand the mind set."
Again, don't ask me to understand that mindset. I don't understand yours in
everything. You don't understand mine. Until we can get into each other's
heads (a la "The Cell"?) we are never going to. It's okay. I don't have to
understand why the serious or high-stakes collector behaves how they do. nor
do I have to agree with it. That doesn't mean I think less of them because
of the way they collect. I do believe that probably most (but I've seen
cases of some) do not think less of me because I use my pens.

Lunch was boring by-the-by. dogs and beans and bread with butter. But! I
had a soft choc. chip cookie from Subway to top it off. :-)

I think my new sig line should read:
If ya can't dazzle 'em with brilliance...

"Dave J" wrote in message
ink.net...

Many of my pens are left intentionally "non-functioning." Rubber sacs
produce sulfer as they age ("out gassing") that discolors most plastics.
When you get an example with pefect color, why would you want to ruin it?
I
use "user grade" pens, and many that I "collect" are non-functioning.


Dave

And if I were the sort to collect the perfect sample, I would do all I could
to preserve it. But essentially, I'm cheap and I like to make use of the
things cluttering up my house.

"Rob Astyk" wrote in message
om...
Hi, All,

Pens were made for writing. To see one lying unused is, to me, a kind
of crime against nature. :-)

:-) I hate to look at my pen case and see a pen that hasn't been inked in a
long time. I have an MB 146 that is a good pen but I just never ink it and
I feel guilty about that. It feels like such a waste. I would avoid buying
any pen that I know I would not use. That means not only is my budget for
pens in good shape, but I don't have to torture myself with "to ink or not
to ink."

Some of my pens still are non-functioning. I've never used a Moore's
Non-Leakable as anything other than a dip pen

well, it is functional as a dip pen then. :-)

As for who is a "serious" collector and who isn't...well, I think that
a truly serious collector is definitely in need of medication and
restraints. :-) Collecting ANYTHING is a pretty absurd passtime.

indeed! I guess that's why I have less than 20 FPs. And even that amount
seems excessive to me. I am, therefore, not a collector of any sort. I like
the term enthusiast.

That
striving for order and control in a chaotic world is at once
understandable and silly. The obsession in volved in getting one of
every color of Sheaffer Balance or Parker 51 is definitely hilarious.

My daughter bought every beanie baby. actually, my mom bought them for her
granddaughters, her other daughter and herself. So whenever a new one came
out, she bought four of 'em. I expressed my distaste for such a thing early
and have only been saddled with about a dozen cutesy fluffy animals. But it
made her happy.

And as for KCat and her 18 pens...what's the matter with her? She
sounds sane! Heavens! We can't have that! ONLY 18 pens, indeed! The
woman must be stopped before she infects us all! 8-D

If I were sane I would never have entered this discussion! I sometimes
wonder, if I had the $$ would I buy a pen that was $300 or more? Would I
buy every Pelikan I could get my hands on? I was poor for a long time.
And I mean *poor*. Being poor sort of trains you to be "sane" with your
obsessions. to an extent. I do have too many stacks of paper (I love
paper) and too many bottles of ink (though I'm down to about 35 now I
think - not much compared to some others.) My "pen nook" is crowded and
disorganized despite having only 18 pens. I haven't even topped the $130
mark on my pen purchases. But the sense of extravagance lingers so I
suspect that at most I will someday own 30 nice pens. "Nice" translates to
"greater than $50 per." As I said, I can't stand to look at pens not being
used regularly and there is no way that even a verbose writer such as myself
can utilize that many pens in a day or week. I think I can rotate them in a
month. I'm still trying.

Of course, i didn't include the dozen Hero, Reflex, Futures and such in my
count. But that still puts me well under "collector" definition I think.

I imagine you saw the incredible pen cabinet posted on Pentrace. I can't
recall the # of pens it holds. 2500? Beautiful work and amazing (for me) to
imagine a collection of that magnitude.

best,
kcat the pen deficient

KCat wrote:
... so basically you're saying that as long as no
one *intends* something bad by the words they say,
no one is allowed to be offended? ...

Not at all... Just that it's a shame that anyone would feel bad about
something so silly (and, no, I'm not poo-pooing your feelings or
anything else). Each of us is the captain of our own ship, and we're
entitled to feel whatever we choose to feel. All I was doing was trying
to put a different slant on the term so folks wouldn't reflexively get
their shorts in a knot over it. BTW, I am not a serious collector but
aspire to be one which is sick enough, and I have never poo-pooed those
whose interests in pens are different than my own. I know a lot of
serious collectors and most are delightful (albeit strange) characters.
Are there some "serious collectors" who poo-poo us mere users and
aspiring pen geeks? Sure, but it doesn't bother me... In fact, I think
it's comical as hell. If you want to be offended by it... go ahead.
BTW, your lunch sounds muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better than mine... t.v.
dinner. Yuck. -- Bernadette

"Free Citizen" wrote in message
...
Whoa, time-out, time-out. Have a kit-kat?

we're just yappin', FC. it might get a bit tense but some of that can be
attributed to the two very opinionated people involved in this particular
sub-thread. :-) Some of it can be attributed to me being hungry and
hormonal.

oh Lord... now I've gone and done it. I've admitted that a female can be
influenced by estrogen and progesterone. And chocolate. I felt much better
after my choc. chip cookie.

"BL" wrote in message
...
KCat wrote:
... so basically you're saying that as long as no
one *intends* something bad by the words they say,
no one is allowed to be offended? ...

Not at all... Just that it's a shame that anyone would feel bad about
something so silly (and, no, I'm not poo-pooing your feelings or
anything else).

okay - to that I will definitely agree. we all have triggers. I got
triggered by a discussion on another board the other day. A discussion that
otherwise was humorous and pleasant but it struck a big, nasty, chord from
my past. so it goes.

BTW, your lunch sounds muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better than mine... t.v.
dinner. Yuck. -- Bernadette

Yeah. I'll pass on the t.v. dinner. My hubby eats those things a lot. Low
carb, low cal. OTOH, he's the healthy one in the family. When I had a life
(read: worked full-time in the real world) I ate such things regularly and
happily.

kcat

"kg" wrote in message
...

"KCat" wrote in message

I think I remember when you were doing that snork restoration; several
questions answers on the board.

yup. it was fun. The hardest part was being able to visualize the
mechanism because I could not get the end cap off to save my life. Without
being able to fully disassemble the pen, all the pictures and descriptions
in the world weren't helping me. But... once that was free it all made
sense. The sac on mine was solid and had to be cracked by tapping on it
through one of the holes in the sac protector. At least it wasn't gooey.

They can be a lot of fun to restore or a
genuine pain, usually depending on how stuck in the tube is the old sac.
I'm a bit amazed at the engineering and complexity of this pen relative to
the touchdown and how far pen co's went to build a better mouse trap.

another forum member mentioned wishing the snorkel was being made
still/again. I think they're very interesting pens and I like the idea of
being able to dip without dunking. But that complexity and sensitivity to
leaks probably doesn't look like fun for a pen manufacturer to have to
support.

On the contrary, I believe it would be a run away success if Sheaffer does
bring back the Snork. The Snork was introduced at a time when slim pens were
in trend. Hence, the constrain the complex mechanism had to be housed in.
This gave rise to leak prone areas. However, today, pen users prefer some
girth size for comfortable writing. The new Snork will have the advantage of
more space to house its mechanism and packing seals and will benefit from
today's machining and material technology. It will be a better Snork for
sure. And you don't need a tissue
--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/


"KCat" wrote in message
...

[snip]


another forum member mentioned wishing the snorkel was being made
still/again. I think they're very interesting pens and I like the idea of
being able to dip without dunking. But that complexity and sensitivity to
leaks probably doesn't look like fun for a pen manufacturer to have to
support.

Free Citizen wrote:
On the contrary, I believe it would be a run away success if Sheaffer does
bring back the Snork. The Snork was introduced at a time when slim pens were
in trend. Hence, the constrain the complex mechanism had to be housed in.
This gave rise to leak prone areas. However, today, pen users prefer some
girth size for comfortable writing. The new Snork will have the advantage of
more space to house its mechanism and packing seals and will benefit from
today's machining and material technology. It will be a better Snork for
sure. And you don't need a tissue

However, BIC has announced that Sheaffer will close in the near future.
What are the chances they might revive the Snork under these
circumstances?

"Jeff Miars" wrote in message
nk.net...

[snip]

However, BIC has announced that Sheaffer will close in the near future.
What are the chances they might revive the Snork under these
circumstances?


To the best of my knowledge, only the Sheaffer plant at Fort Madison will be
closed. Sheaffer may continue to operate from overseas. They have recently
launched some new models and have a new website. But reintroducing the Snork
may required more substantial investment than what they are introducing now.
As all the production tools for the Snork may no longer be available. At the
current state of affairs, it seem unlikely they will do so but you never
know. The Snork may be the needed boost Sheaffer needs to turn itself
around. BTW, I didn't mention that Sheaffer did make Snorkels in larger
models in the form of PFM. It had a short production run. But this are very
large girth pens that may not be suitable for some people. I find their
current Legacy 2 model unwieldy to use. Perhaps a Snorkel in the form of a
Balance would be nice
--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/