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#21
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:54 -0600, Harold Fears wrote:
Only an idiot would think that this is a genuine silver dollar. Harold And thus it would be fine to take from him! I hope you know a lot about cars next time you need a mechanic. -- DW |
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#22
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:53:36 -0800, Paul Robertz wrote:
All of reading this can quickly discern that this is not a real Carson City Morgan dollar. Yet it gets bids from the optimistically ignorant. What to do? Emailing the seller or reporting him to eBay will get nowhere, since the auction description contains enough detail to alert the experienced collector that this coin is a reproduction. For quite a few months now eBay has given lip service to the ANA and required coin sellers to state that their coins are represented in accordance with ANA grading standards. Of course, this is not a "coin" strictly speaking, so eBay can collect their final value fees from the seller once the winning bidiot has paid. There have been a couple of fruitless attempts to get eBay to either create a new category for reproductions/copies/fakes or force sellers to onclude "copy", "reproduction" or some similar word in the item specifics. Still this one is listed as "Certified" "Carson City" "Siver" "Proof", for which precious few Morgans would qualify. Yes, eBay could be doing more to alert mentally retarded bidders that this is not a real 1879-CC GSA Morgan dollar. I agree with Steve that eBay and cable TV auctions of such reproductions will continue until the sources that create them cease to exist. I think that these silver plated fakes were made with despicable motives, and do not condone those selling them to the public. In the meantime, is there any way we can take less than draconian measures to stop such preying on the ignorant? Much of the U.S. gross domestic product is generated by preying on the ignorant. Perhaps this auction simply epitomizes that the U.S. gross domestic product is gross indeed, and cannot be compared to the economy of Tibetan monks or more enlightened citizens of this planet. If the federal government were to outlaw misrepresentation so that every advertisement was clear to the most stupid citizen, we would live in a society described by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1960s short story "Harrison Bergeron". Under that scenario, all Americans were finally equal when each person was fitted with a heavy suit of lead weights proportional to their intelligence and physical strength so that no one could do anything other than sit in their chair and watch TV. Shystev99 wrote: I agree. This auction is no different from the TV ads. It is clearly stated that this is a reproduction and "replication". The one thing that I hate to see is that "100 mil .999 pure silver proof" wording. This kind of language is obviously designed to imply to non-numismatists that, reproduction or not, this is a .999 silver coin. A simple "Silver plated" would be much more truthful and informative, but certainly would not attract as many potential buyers. Unlike unavoidable TV commercials, anyone landing on this auction site would most likely have been searching for coin-related auctions. Once there, even if they are uninformed, they are responsible for any bid decisions they make. Bruce I agree with you that the wording of the .999 Silver coin MAY sound deceptive but my next question would be, Is the coin solid silver or is it plated. As far as I know there is no law against selling pure silver coins even if they are advertised as copies or replicas. The Franklin Mint used to mint .999 silver coins all the time when they were in business back in the 70's. Now these coins weren't all replicas of actual coins but still I don't think anybody selling silver in bar form or coin form is illegal.....Is it? (I'm not talking about deliberate counterfit coins designed to circulate and fool consumers, I mean coins that are advertised as copies or replicas) Now if the coins are infact plated then....Absolutley it's unethical and wrong. But if everybody feels so passionatley about this then there are options, Some of you suggest stopping the seller. Well that won't solve the overall problem. The better solution would be for us to get together as a group (Which we are) write up some proposal that would make it illegal for any mint to mint their coins in the form of any US minted coin throughout the history of the mint. Meaning reproductions, copies, replicas or any other slick wording of any pre existing coin would be banned altogtether. We then submit that proposal to a local congressman, Or numerous congressmen and see where they can take it. To give it somekind of backbone we can also create a petition that collectors, reputable dealers, US Mint officials, or anyone else interested could sign. We could find reputable dealers (Many which are in this group) to maybe help get the word out about this law or bill on their websites, Coin shows, storefronts etc... Now some of you may laugh at this idea, Hell I'm laughing at it a little bit myself. But when you think about it with the coin market the way it is and with it as popular as it is some senators and congressmen might actually bite at it. Now would it happen overnight? No It will be a long drawn out process that would be very frustrating and tedious at times. But again if you guys are truly as passionate as you sound I say it's something we should atleast think about. And any collectors here outside of the US can hopefully seek the same kind of option in their countries. Point being, If we make these reproductions, copies and replicas of EXISTING OR HISTORICAL U.S. AND GLOBAL LEGAL TENDER then ebay or any other auction site would have to enforce and restrict not having it sold on their sites. If you truly want to stop it you have to goto the source, Not the sellers. Steve I am familiar with the text, and I don't think you are comparing like items. I know nothing about fixing a car. If I take my car to a mechanic and he uses careful phrasing to convince me I need to have something I don't really need, he is in the wrong. Or, am I in the wrong for operating a motor vehicle and not fully understanding it? I hope those of you defending this guys actions are not any one I will ever have to trust. -- DW |
#23
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linxlvr wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:54 -0600, Harold Fears wrote: Only an idiot would think that this is a genuine silver dollar. Harold And thus it would be fine to take from him! I hope you know a lot about cars next time you need a mechanic. -- DW Actually, the mechanically-challenged would hopefully seek the services of a reputable mechanic. In the same regard, the numismatically-challenged would do well to seek the services of a reputable coin dealer-- not a slick TV ad or an Ebay auction. I'd bet that many of the people who buy these "coins" don't really have a clue as to what they really are. They probably don't know an 1879-CC dollar from an 2500cc Harley. They just are attracted to the theme of the piece and presume it must be valuable and a good investment because of all the fancy words in the ads. I wish I could get my original purchase price back for those Limoges Bicentennial plates I bought from junk mail ads without first doing some research on the past performance of what I was "investing" in. A relatively inexpensive lesson over a long term. Bruce |
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