Can't get $2s

I went back to the bank today, and talked to the manager about getting $2
bills. He was a nice guy and called a bank for me, possibly a Federal Reserve
Bank, to see if he could order $2s and said that I would have to get a brick if
I wanted $2s because they were hard to get rid of. I told him that I wouldn't
want to get a brick off ebay because they are not worth more than face value,
and wouldn't want to pay more, and he said "They sell them on ebay? I never
seen that before" Then I told him I wish banks would give $2 out as needed, and
said that I had also been writing congress about bringing back the $500 bill
and issuing a $200 bill because of inflation, and he quickly said "Yeah. And
get rid of the penny too." and I said "And the $1 bill" and he agreed and I
asked "How about a $2 coin for the $2 bill like in Canada?" and he agreed to
that too. I said "You actually support that, too?" And he said "Oh yeah. I
would be all for it" Then I left and he said he was sorry he couldn't help me
out. But he was friendly. Not like how some people have atitudes over some of
these issues. But at least he supports getting rid of pennies and $1 bills and
issuing new $200 and $500 bills. I wonder if they would have to order full
bricks of $200 and $500 bills. That could be a problem too. Unless people used
those high denominations.

This may be a good thing, right? Do you guys think people who run banks might
be well heard on these issues?

Speaking of pennies, some guy at the bank was getting two boxes of them for
something while I was there.

Tom

On 13 Jan 2004 23:57:56 GMT, (Malanutt 4 Life) wrote:

Speaking of pennies, some guy at the bank was getting two boxes of them for
something while I was there.

Tom

Proof positive that they aren't needed, I say.


BLReed

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On 13 Jan 2004 23:57:56 GMT, (Malanutt 4 Life)
wrote:

This may be a good thing, right? Do you guys think people who run banks might
be well heard on these issues?

They're the ones that actually deal with loads of dough every day. You
might want to ask him _why_ he'd like to bring out $200 and $500
notes, $2 coins and no more pennies and dollar notes. It may well be a
practicality issue (his tellers have to count all those dollar notes
at the end of their shift, and I bet they spend a goodly bit of time
straightening the things out just to get them in the counter) such as
the greater ease in dealing with dollar coins over notes.

When you've got a well worded proposal, you might consider peddling it
to other bank managers in your area, and perhaps get the thoughts of
area merchants as well. They deal with money too! They'd probably like
to get rid of pennies, and might not be adverse to being rid of dollar
notes as well. Could also ask transportation firms (taxi companies,
public and private bus operators, etc).

When you've got a good grasp on what real people who handle lots of
money every day are thinking on this issue - NOT just what we in the
NG opine! - you might hire a writer to work up a letter or petition.
Then get these guys, and perhaps some merchants associations or BBB to
sign on and send THAT along to your Senator.

It's all well and good for Malanutt to send off a personal letter to
his congresscritter - it's another thing entirely when a whole load of
you (with LOTS of $$$ that could be spent on the opposing candidate)
bring something to Sen. Feedbag's attention!

Speaking of pennies, some guy at the bank was getting two boxes of them for
something while I was there.

Probably some NG member searching for wheaties!

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

"Padraic Brown" wrote in message
...
On 13 Jan 2004 23:57:56 GMT, (Malanutt 4 Life)
wrote:

This may be a good thing, right? Do you guys think people who run banks
might
be well heard on these issues?

They're the ones that actually deal with loads of dough every day. You
might want to ask him _why_ he'd like to bring out $200 and $500
notes, $2 coins and no more pennies and dollar notes. It may well be a
practicality issue (his tellers have to count all those dollar notes
at the end of their shift, and I bet they spend a goodly bit of time
straightening the things out just to get them in the counter) such as
the greater ease in dealing with dollar coins over notes.

I wonder how many merchants would cringe at the prospect of now having to
recognize a bogus $200 or $500 note? Or $2 coins to go with the $1 coins
they already find inconvenient? How many people would prefer to carry this
much money in cash and in such large denominations? And I could count the
time it takes a teller to straighten out a stack of bills before putting
them in a counter in three seconds.


When you've got a well worded proposal, you might consider peddling it
to other bank managers in your area, and perhaps get the thoughts of
area merchants as well. They deal with money too! They'd probably like
to get rid of pennies, and might not be adverse to being rid of dollar
notes as well. Could also ask transportation firms (taxi companies,
public and private bus operators, etc).

I suppose, for their convenience, the banks would probably like to get rid
of ALL coins for that matter. But it's still the people who spend them and
decide which denominations they prefer. And as long as merchants have to
provide the correct change to their customers, they'll stock the coins they
need to do so. But somehow I just can't picture Congress deciding to
eliminate certain coins or bills based on a survey of bus operators. The
"common spender" has the final word on what coins or bills he uses, but no
pro or con advocates seem to care about polling him-- maybe because they
know what the answers will be.

Actually I would have no problem seeing the cent eliminated, rounding final
purchase prices to the nickel, and even eliminating the dollar bill and
adding a $2 coin. I just can't see it happening all at once or even
piecemeal, without some phenominal impetus that none of us has thought of
yet.

Bruce

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:36:53 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

I wonder how many merchants would cringe at the prospect of now having to
recognize a bogus $200 or $500 note?

Probably the same number that cringe at the prospect of having to
recognise bogus $100, $50 and $20 less the number of merchants that
tack up signs saying "NO BILLS OVER $10".

Or $2 coins to go with the $1 coins
they already find inconvenient?

This is what a wide survey will show. There are people in this NG -
including actual merchants - that find dollar coins quite convenient.
As I said, this NG is a small community. Any serious proposal to pull
a Canada will have to do some actual research on all people that
handle cash.

How many people would prefer to carry this
much money in cash and in such large denominations?

It doesn't really matter much. Some people will - most people won't.
The option of having a $500 note would be a Good Thing. In the way
having the option of using a C note is a Good Thing.

And I could count the
time it takes a teller to straighten out a stack of bills before putting
them in a counter in three seconds.

Sure. I've watched em straighten those notes out. Takes a little more
than three seconds! The trouble is worse for vending and fare machine
folks.

When you've got a well worded proposal, you might consider peddling it
to other bank managers in your area, and perhaps get the thoughts of
area merchants as well. They deal with money too! They'd probably like
to get rid of pennies, and might not be adverse to being rid of dollar
notes as well. Could also ask transportation firms (taxi companies,
public and private bus operators, etc).

I suppose, for their convenience, the banks would probably like to get rid
of ALL coins for that matter.

Could be. They'd probably like to get rid cash entirely, close the
teller windows and stick to what actually makes them money: LENDING.
Every teller that sits around the bank is a DRAIN on the bank's bottom
line.

But it's still the people who spend them and
decide which denominations they prefer.

Quite. And when choice isn't there, we can't know what is "prefered".

And as long as merchants have to
provide the correct change to their customers, they'll stock the coins they
need to do so. But somehow I just can't picture Congress deciding to
eliminate certain coins or bills based on a survey of bus operators.

.... and BANKS and MERCHANTS and VOTERS. You missed a couple there.
You'd be amazed what kind of crapola Congress will pass if it gets em
the votes.

The "common spender" has the final word on what coins or bills he uses,

Not exactly true.

but no
pro or con advocates seem to care about polling him-- maybe because they
know what the answers will be.

Um. HELLO? I just proposed a broad based survey to research this
issue! I specified those segments that handle cash regularly and in
great quantity; but have also suggested including the "common spender"
in the past.

Actually I would have no problem seeing the cent eliminated, rounding final
purchase prices to the nickel, and even eliminating the dollar bill and
adding a $2 coin. I just can't see it happening all at once or even
piecemeal, without some phenominal impetus that none of us has thought of
yet.

Perhaps Canada can invade again? "Phenomenal impetus" probably is not
required. A lot of support surely is. The lesson is this: no one
outside this NG gives a damn one way or the other. Even within this
NG, there are a lot of us that don't really care all that much. While
I would _prefer_ not having to deal with pennies and dollar notes; I
don't really care one way or the other whether we actually go that
route or stay where we are. As for $200 and $500 - as I said, they'd
be nice; but I don't really care all that much whether or not we ever
get them (again).

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

On Wed, Padraic Brown wrote:

Um. HELLO? I just proposed a broad based survey to research this
issue! I specified those segments that handle cash regularly and in
great quantity; but have also suggested including the "common spender"
in the past.

I am having trouble finding facts that agree with what I see
in the quantity of cents and the dates of dollar bills.
There are definitely enough cents in circulation, it
is time for the FRB to suggest that banks try to find a way
to recirculate cent surpluses amongst themselves.

I see no reason at all for a bank to stock $2 bills unless
a race track is a customer, or enough merchants want them
to use in making change, to warrant stocking the minimum
shipment.

But the bigger issue is how much truth there is in the
numbers of dollar bills printed in direct replacement of
destroyed bills.
I could support dollar coins more forcefully if I
were to see good evidence that it actually costs a lot
more to use dollar bills than dollar coins (I do not think
the present alloy sandwich faces are what will keep the
SAC looking good for 30 years).

What I have done on a small scale is to check dates
of dollar bills that I have, and it turns out that 10 out of 12
were 1999 series bills (this was from 12 bills I received
from the same source, change for a $20 bill).

For a bill to only last 18 months there should only
be about 2 or 3 out of ten older than 2001 series, as the
published numbers for dollar bills in circulation are just
passing 8 Billion.

And it would be helpful to know how many bills
are still actually in circulation, there are a number of
cases where dollar bills are used that dollar coins would
never be used, and many ways that dollar bills will be
lost forever (but probably not collected to the extent
that coins are).
Many merchants place the first dollar bill received
in a frame with their business license, so that could
account for several million bills.


Tracking the dates of worn bills being destroyed
does not tell the average lifetime, but a survey of the
dates of bills in circulation should as long as the survey
is not of direct bank withdrawals that may contain all
new bills.

And somthing that might sway my opinion and
whether I care or not is knowing who benefits from
the bills that are lost or placed where they will never
be redeemed.
This is important even for dollar bills, but more
important for larger denomination bills, if government
costs or profit is the driving issue, then the governemt
must be the entity to lose or gain from any changes.

If it turns out the FRB pays for all printing and
keeps all issued bills listed as possibly redeemable,
then the government would not even be involved
in the issue, and all support for doing away with
dollar bills is misguided.

It is certain that many millions, if not Billions,
of bills of all denominations will never be redeemed,
and whomever it is that benefits from that fact can
apply the gain from lost bills to the printing costs.

The government seems to definitely receive
the "profit" from the mint, but the "profit" from
printing bills can vary according to how the bookkeeping
is done, either it shows up in excess revenues of the FRB,
or just stays on the books as a redeemable debit forever,
with possibly no benefit to any entity ever realized in
a way that shows up on the books.

As it is, claims that the government would gain
by the use of dollar coins instead of bills are suspect,
I have been assuming the treasury received the benefit
of lost bills, but now I am not sure.
And if the treasury does not receive the "profit"
from printing paper money, then the government does
not pay for the printing, and it seems to be a non-issue
in either case.

Joe Fischer

Malanutt 4 Life wrote:

I went back to the bank today, and talked to the manager about getting $2
bills. He was a nice guy and called a bank for me, possibly a Federal Reserve
Bank, to see if he could order $2s and said that I would have to get a brick if
I wanted $2s because they were hard to get rid of. I told him that I wouldn't
want to get a brick off ebay because they are not worth more than face value,
and wouldn't want to pay more, and he said "They sell them on ebay? I never
seen that before"

I think he was not suggesting that you buy the brick on eBay, but
rather get it from the bank and sell the excess on eBay. Or, if you
want to be sure they'll never be helpful again, after getting the
brick, redeposit whatever excess portion you don't want.

He didn't suggest to to buy a brick off ebay. I mentioned buying them on ebay.
I should have pointed that out. Sorry.

I thought of dumping the other straps on the bank, but I wouldn't want to tick
them off. But I also have the fear of a mugger seeing me carry that brick out
the bank door, too.

Tom

On 13 Jan (Malanutt 4 Life) wrote:

I went back to the bank today, and talked to the manager about getting $2
bills.

I will be glad to send you one, I would be glad to get
rid of it, but it is Canadian, is that OK? $2 bills are easy
to get near a race track, like in Derby City.

How many twos in a brick, I think I read where there
are $4000 in ones in a brick.

Maybe they could call 4000 dollar coins a "concrete block",
but a concrete block only weighs about 40 pounds.

Joe Fischer

Are you dealing with a "savings bank" or a regular 'real' bank?

Savings banks generally get and deposit their cash through regular banks, so getting
special orders from a savings bank is usually quite a hassle. It is not a hassle if they
already carry that denomination on a regular basis. The key concept is "special". Anything
they are not used to doing makes them react like Rain Man.

You can always open another account at a different bank (not a different 'branch' of the
same bank, but a completely different bank) and then deposit the extra $2s there. You can
also take the extras to local businesses and ask them if they have a couple of $100s or 4
$50s or 10 $20s. They might actually need small bills and use them as gasp money!

-Fred Shecter
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...shreadv ector

--
"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
"Malanutt 4 Life" wrote in message
...
I went back to the bank today, and talked to the manager about getting $2
bills. He was a nice guy and called a bank for me, possibly a Federal Reserve
Bank, to see if he could order $2s and said that I would have to get a brick if
I wanted $2s because they were hard to get rid of. I told him that I wouldn't
want to get a brick off ebay because they are not worth more than face value,
and wouldn't want to pay more, and he said "They sell them on ebay? I never
seen that before" Then I told him I wish banks would give $2 out as needed, and
said that I had also been writing congress about bringing back the $500 bill
and issuing a $200 bill because of inflation, and he quickly said "Yeah. And
get rid of the penny too." and I said "And the $1 bill" and he agreed and I
asked "How about a $2 coin for the $2 bill like in Canada?" and he agreed to
that too. I said "You actually support that, too?" And he said "Oh yeah. I
would be all for it" Then I left and he said he was sorry he couldn't help me
out. But he was friendly. Not like how some people have atitudes over some of
these issues. But at least he supports getting rid of pennies and $1 bills and
issuing new $200 and $500 bills. I wonder if they would have to order full
bricks of $200 and $500 bills. That could be a problem too. Unless people used
those high denominations.

This may be a good thing, right? Do you guys think people who run banks might
be well heard on these issues?

Speaking of pennies, some guy at the bank was getting two boxes of them for
something while I was there.

Tom