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How many 'collect' non-functioning pens?



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 14th 04, 08:33 PM
BL
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KCat wrote:
... again. it is my "truth", my opinion, that
for me the best use of a pen is well... use.


Neither of my posts took issue with this at all.

... You asked why people were taking it so
seriously,


Actually, I said "personally" not "seriously."

I explained why. that some took the wording
as divisive. why should it be anymore complex than
that? (not rhetorical and does have a question
mark?)


Good question. What's not to understand about this: "Serious
collector," the way most collectors use the term, is not meant to be
disparaging to anyone (people who are serious collectors and those of us
who are not).

... Let's talk practically.


I've been trying to do that and clearly I've been failing miserably.

someone said something.


Agreed.

a couple of people took offense.


Yepper.

it doesn't matter whether they should have or
shouldn't.


I think this is the point at which our positions begin to diverge.

The fact that they did *proves* IMO that the word
has connotations. if it didn't, rightly or wrongly,
we wouldn't be having this discussion.


"Serious collector" captures the meaning in a parsimonious way... Can't
imagine any other term one can use to describe these folks that couldn't
be misconstrued in some way. Suffice it to say (?) that the term
"serious collector" is widely used and accepted to connote a level of
expertise that distinguishes him/her from most collectors. Is that ok,
or is it still offensive?

Hope you enjoyed your lunch... Bernadette



Ads
  #22  
Old September 14th 04, 08:42 PM
BL
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Clawhound wrote:

How about "high stakes?"


Not everyone who spends a lot of money on pens is considered a "serious
collector."

Even a low stakes collector can be very serious
about what he does and be as completely dedicated
to collecting as the high stakes collectors, but
the high-stakes collectors are simply playing at a
different monetary level.


I would agree with this.

B


  #23  
Old September 15th 04, 12:28 AM
Dave J
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" Anyone else keep non-functioning pens in their collection, or do you
toss/trade/lose them if they don't work? If anyone does own a
non-functioning pen, what's the most you'd pay (I'm guessing my
threshhold is around $ 25 for a nice, unique pen)?



Many of my pens are left intentionally "non-functioning." Rubber sacs
produce sulfer as they age ("out gassing") that discolors most plastics.
When you get an example with pefect color, why would you want to ruin it? I
use "user grade" pens, and many that I "collect" are non-functioning.


Dave


  #24  
Old September 15th 04, 12:35 AM
Bluesea
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"PENDEMONIUM" wrote in message
...
snip
... it made no matter whether they worked and in
fact many times the guts are stripped out in order not to risk potential
damage.


Then there are people like my dad who'd gut a fp, including the nib, so that
he could store industrial-sized needles, thermometers, and such.

sigh

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #25  
Old September 15th 04, 12:53 AM
Dave J
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Sam:

A great reply to the original question - thoughtful and eloquent, a pleasure
to read.



Dave


  #26  
Old September 15th 04, 02:32 AM
Free Citizen
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Whoa, time-out, time-out. Have a kit-kat?

--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/

"BL" wrote in message
...
KCat wrote:
... again. it is my "truth", my opinion, that
for me the best use of a pen is well... use.


Neither of my posts took issue with this at all.

... You asked why people were taking it so
seriously,


Actually, I said "personally" not "seriously."

I explained why. that some took the wording
as divisive. why should it be anymore complex than
that? (not rhetorical and does have a question
mark?)


Good question. What's not to understand about this: "Serious collector,"
the way most collectors use the term, is not meant to be disparaging to
anyone (people who are serious collectors and those of us who are not).

... Let's talk practically.


I've been trying to do that and clearly I've been failing miserably.

someone said something.


Agreed.

a couple of people took offense.


Yepper.

it doesn't matter whether they should have or
shouldn't.


I think this is the point at which our positions begin to diverge.

The fact that they did *proves* IMO that the word
has connotations. if it didn't, rightly or wrongly,
we wouldn't be having this discussion.


"Serious collector" captures the meaning in a parsimonious way... Can't
imagine any other term one can use to describe these folks that couldn't
be misconstrued in some way. Suffice it to say (?) that the term "serious
collector" is widely used and accepted to connote a level of expertise
that distinguishes him/her from most collectors. Is that ok, or is it
still offensive?

Hope you enjoyed your lunch... Bernadette





  #27  
Old September 15th 04, 04:50 AM
Free Citizen
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An interesting view on the trend of pen collecting these days. The way I see
it, there will always be the 'traditional pen collector'. Meaning, these
collectors accumulate specimens same as a numismatist would for old money
and medals. Most do it to 'amuse' themselves as they derive great enjoyment
out of it. Sharing with like minded friends about the historical value of
their collection and so forth. A small number do this professionally.
Acquiring to sell to enthusiasts. Many of this later group do it as a labour
of love and most take the trouble to acquire the skill to service these pens
even. However, there are also the profiteer that are not collectors
themselves. These should be avoided. A person who have no love for the hobby
can't possibly care well for the pen. For me, I am a user and I do not think
I will ever be a collector. Although I have just embarked on the route to
acquire old pens. I now have about 30 to 40 modern pens but I don't consider
them to be my collection. Since I use all of them and some of them have been
out of production for many years. To me, a pen is meant to be used. It is so
pitiful when they aren't. I guess the Toy Story 2 bug caught me

--
Best regards,
Free Citizen
http://www.freewebs.com/fpnet/


"PENDEMONIUM" wrote in message
...
I always find this an interesting discussion and a good reminder to me
that pen collecting has changed a lot over the years and the term pen
collector seems to be ever evolving. About 10 years or so ago when
people first started talking pens online, the majority were collectors -
we gathered pens, function was not a concern, in fact most vintage pens
did not work. The concern was the historical aspect of the pens;
researching, identifying - it made no matter whether they worked and in
fact many times the guts are stripped out in order not to risk potential
damage. I still tell people that if they're going to collect a pen and
never use it to remove the sac or diaphragm and eliminate much of the
risk of altering condition. I don't think that pen collecting totally
relates to value of the pen, ie: serious collectors don't necessarily
collect just expensive pens. I have some of those, but some of my
favorites are unsual examples that just aren't easily found - weird
colors, prototypes, stuff like that - many of these would hold
relatively low value to another collector and the market in general
because they aren't always well documented or well known. Not so long
ago, it was a novel idea to actually use these vintage pens! When there
were questions about condition, that didn't involve whther it worked or
not! So, I guess I'm a serious pen collector in this respect because I
do collect pens that I would never dream of writing with.

On most of the online pen forums now, talk focuses around new pens and
restored to writability vintage pens. I collect those, too. But the
pens I buy to write with are just that - they aren't ones that I
consider part of my pen collection. Some are new, some are old, but the
sole reason I buy them is becaue I like the way they write. So, I have
a collection of historical pens and I have another collection of pens I
like to write with. Easy enough to do both.

I think there are an awful lot of people in our pen community who cross
over into collecting from a historical standpoint and collecting pens to
use on an everyday basis. Nothing wrong with doing either, you just
have to remember who you're talking to and what they're talking about
when they say they are a "pen collector", a term that has come to have
many meanings.

Just some food for thought ... Sam



  #28  
Old September 15th 04, 05:05 AM
Tim McNamara
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It doesn't really seem that "serious collector" has a functional
definition for the purposes of conversation. Maybe that's just as
well. Personally, I get along better with light hearted collectors of
any objet d'homage.
  #29  
Old September 15th 04, 10:06 AM
Rob Astyk
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Hi, All,

Sam Fiorella's perspective was very valuable. I'd like to speak to
both topics in this thread.

When I started collecting fountain pens a little more than 25 years
ago, I repaired every pen I owned except those that required lathes
and exotic tools (e.g. Sheaffer and Eversharp plunger fillers, Post
Pens, and all safeties). I did then and still do consider all of my
pens "users" whether they come in the box with price stickers or not.
Pens were made for writing. To see one lying unused is, to me, a kind
of crime against nature. :-)

Some of my pens still are non-functioning. I've never used a Moore's
Non-Leakable as anything other than a dip pen and I still have trouble
considering any plunger filled Sheaffer a "good buy" if it costs more
than $5.00, but I have many of them nonetheless. So the short answer
is that I do collect non-functioning pens in the hope of having them
back in working order one day.

As for who is a "serious" collector and who isn't...well, I think that
a truly serious collector is definitely in need of medication and
restraints. :-) Collecting ANYTHING is a pretty absurd passtime. That
striving for order and control in a chaotic world is at once
understandable and silly. The obsession in volved in getting one of
every color of Sheaffer Balance or Parker 51 is definitely hilarious.
Every collector, myself included is simply a loony rearranging deck
chairs on the Titanic. If a collector is so serious that he can't step
back and see the absurdities in all of this endeavor, then he's really
close to being a danger to himself and others. :-)

I will sit down and examine imprints with a magnifier for hours or
read pen literature rather than a good novel. I have
I-don't-know-how-many Red Parker Duofold Seniors from the 1920's
because there's something - maybe just the die for the barrel imprint
or the way the tails in the Lucky Curve banner curl - something
different about every one. It's absurd, but that's what we do when we
collect.

I haven't ever paid more than $1,000. for a pen, but I've paid $800.
for a pen case, a 2-dozen, countertop pen case to put pens in. And I'd
happily have paid all the money recently tossed to the seller of that
A.A. Waterman Snake pen on Ebay if I could afford to toss that kind of
money around. But I don't think that there's anything "serious" at all
about collecting. It's all crazy and that's the way I want to be. :-)

And as for KCat and her 18 pens...what's the matter with her? She
sounds sane! Heavens! We can't have that! ONLY 18 pens, indeed! The
woman must be stopped before she infects us all! 8-D

Take care,

Rob Astyk
  #30  
Old September 15th 04, 03:35 PM
BL
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Posts: n/a
Default

Rob Astyk wrote:


... I think that a truly serious collector is
definitely in need of medication and restraints.
:-) ... I will sit down and examine imprints with
a magnifier for hours or read pen literature rather
than a good novel. I have I-don't-know-how-many Red
Parker Duofold Seniors from the 1920's because
there's something - maybe just the die for the
barrel imprint or the way the tails in the Lucky
Curve banner curl - something different about every
one. It's absurd, but that's what we do when we
collect....


Now that Rob has explained some of the kinds of things serious
collectors do, next time you hear someone mention "serious collector,"
perhaps you'll chuckle instead of taking offense. The word does have
connotations, and they're rip-roariously funny. -- Bernadette


 




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