Marines screwed by the Corps

"The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24
civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar
with the case."

So we send them over there to kill Iraqis and when they do we
courtmartial them?
Great incentive to join the armed forces: obey orders and WE'LL kill
you!
--
RWF

In article . com,
"The Bobino" wrote:

"The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24
civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar
with the case."

So we send them over there to kill Iraqis and when they do we
courtmartial them?
Great incentive to join the armed forces: obey orders and WE'LL kill
you!
--
RWF

Bob,

Why are you posting this here? I really don't get it. (I mean, you're no
newbie!)

- Scot Kamins

Scot Kamins wrote:
In article . com,
"The Bobino" wrote:

"The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24
civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar
with the case."

So we send them over there to kill Iraqis and when they do we
courtmartial them?
Great incentive to join the armed forces: obey orders and WE'LL kill
you!
--
RWF

Bob,

Why are you posting this here? I really don't get it. (I mean, you're no
newbie!)

Cause they're throwing the book at them!

"The Bobino" wrote in message
ups.com...

"The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24
civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar
with the case."

So we send them over there to kill Iraqis and when they do we
courtmartial them?

Perhaps you never served in the armed forces.
The unifying central point of "military discipline"
is that troops are trained to kill on command, but
only on command. Killing (or threatening) without
valid orders to do so is a military crime (and so is
failing to kill when ordered to do so.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote:
"The Bobino" wrote in message
ups.com...

"The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24
civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar
with the case."

So we send them over there to kill Iraqis and when they do we
courtmartial them?

Perhaps you never served in the armed forces.
The unifying central point of "military discipline"
is that troops are trained to kill on command, but
only on command. Killing (or threatening) without
valid orders to do so is a military crime (and so is
failing to kill when ordered to do so.)

We sent a bunch of kids into a environment where it is impossible to
tell who is your enemy and who is not. I don't blame them for being a
bit itchy on the trigger finger! The Marines should give these kids
medals, not courtmartial them.

"The Bobino" wrote in message
oups.com...

We sent a bunch of kids into a environment where it is impossible to
tell who is your enemy and who is not. I don't blame them for being a
bit itchy on the trigger finger! The Marines should give these kids
medals, not courtmartial them.

This might be justified if the US armed forces were truly
"a bunch of kids" unequipped by either military discipline
or combat training. It would also be a terrible reflection
on the US officer corps. Is there any fair and accurate
way of measuring whether US officers are so incompetent?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote:

This might be justified if the US armed forces were truly
"a bunch of kids" unequipped by either military discipline
or combat training. It would also be a terrible reflection
on the US officer corps. Is there any fair and accurate
way of measuring whether US officers are so incompetent?

OK Mr. Canadian-know-it-all - let's put YOU in a war zone where it is
impossible to tell combatants from civilians and see what you do.
Oh yeah, and you can only be about 18 or 19 years old.

"The Bobino" wrote in message
ps.com...

OK Mr. Canadian-know-it-all - let's put YOU in a war zone where it is
impossible to tell combatants from civilians and see what you do.
Oh yeah, and you can only be about 18 or 19 years old.

French and German imperial troops had buckets of
experience in this kind of thing. Before the end of
the 19th century they knew pretty much what they
could do and what they could not do -- thus avoided
"war zones where it was impossible to tell combatants
from civilians" (i.e. did not initiate military action except
for military purposes approved by civilian authority) and
developed special methods for special needs e.g.
1. Occupation troops in Palestine, Iraq etc. (where
"combatants" would be encountered rarely and only
in remote places)
2. Northwest Frontier of India, where "combatants"
could be encountered in any place during the campaigning
season, because of local feuds, the general tradition of
carrying arms, "banditry" etc.
3. Soldiers should be usually ordered and at all times
advised by civilian governors, who must speak the local
language, know intimately the local law and religion etc.

These methods were not kept secret. Both retired soldiers
and critical historians wrote at length about them, all
these memoirs are in the DoD library in Washington, and
I am sure many US professional officers have read them.

At least some French and British imperial troops were 18 or
19-year-olds and all 2nd lieutenants began at about age 20.
But soldiers of this age were not expected to make daily
decisions of the type thrust on US troopers overseas today.
They traveled and patrolled on foot, usually in company or
battalion strength -- not in vehicles and not in bodies smaller
than a platoon. Not least, their armies had many regiments
of local (African or Indian) troops, usually organized in accord
with tribal tradition, who were committed to the imperial cause.
I can get no US TV news here, but get the impression US
forces in Iraq have not yet tried any of these methods.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Killing (or threatening) without
valid orders to do so is a military crime (and so is
failing to kill when ordered to do so.)
"Don Phillipson"

Bull****....killing without valid orders is part of the "spoils of war",
along with a little sexual gratification at the expence of the vanquished
enemy.

you're complicating the matter.....all one needs to remember in a hostile
environment is "when in doubt, kill"

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"The Bobino" wrote in message
ps.com...

OK Mr. Canadian-know-it-all - let's put YOU in a war zone where it is
impossible to tell combatants from civilians and see what you do.
Oh yeah, and you can only be about 18 or 19 years old.

French and German imperial troops had buckets of
experience in this kind of thing. Before the end of
the 19th century they knew pretty much what they
could do and what they could not do -- thus avoided
"war zones where it was impossible to tell combatants
from civilians" (i.e. did not initiate military action except
for military purposes approved by civilian authority) and
developed special methods for special needs e.g.
1. Occupation troops in Palestine, Iraq etc. (where
"combatants" would be encountered rarely and only
in remote places)
2. Northwest Frontier of India, where "combatants"
could be encountered in any place during the campaigning
season, because of local feuds, the general tradition of
carrying arms, "banditry" etc.
3. Soldiers should be usually ordered and at all times
advised by civilian governors, who must speak the local
language, know intimately the local law and religion etc.

These methods were not kept secret. Both retired soldiers
and critical historians wrote at length about them, all
these memoirs are in the DoD library in Washington, and
I am sure many US professional officers have read them.

At least some French and British imperial troops were 18 or
19-year-olds and all 2nd lieutenants began at about age 20.
But soldiers of this age were not expected to make daily
decisions of the type thrust on US troopers overseas today.
They traveled and patrolled on foot, usually in company or
battalion strength -- not in vehicles and not in bodies smaller
than a platoon. Not least, their armies had many regiments
of local (African or Indian) troops, usually organized in accord
with tribal tradition, who were committed to the imperial cause.
I can get no US TV news here, but get the impression US
forces in Iraq have not yet tried any of these methods.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)