Got a Wallbox for my 161....and I am "THIS CLOSE" to having itworking 100%

Hey all-
As I mentioned in a earlier thread, I had plans to hook a
wallbox up to my 161. I got one, and have it hooked up, and it works
almost perfect except for this:
All selections seem to work until you get to U8. Almost like the
contact for U8 is flaky.
U8 will sometime play T8
V8 will sometimes play U8
It has worked correctly though....maybe once or twice in 20 tries.

To make things a little more confusing, here is what sometimes
happens:
You make ONE selection V8...it plays U8....after that song is over, it
plays V8....Any ideas on where to look??

I have reacpped the selection receiver and stepper. When selections
are made from the keys on 161 it works fine. I tried cleaning the
rotating switch switch plate contacts, and they look clean. Is there
any other switches I should look at or clean?

Thanks!
Mark

Common problem on worn steppers.

When it selects two letters or numbers the stepper wiper contact is
touching two rivets at once. This is more common on letters because
there are normally more pulses on that wheel.

Unplug the Tormat. Connect one lead of a meter to the center contact
on the wafer (letter in this case) wedge something in the hold the
magnet in the center so that the wheels stay where they are as you
manually step up one letter at a time. At each letter you should see
continuity at -only one rivet-. If there is a place where two rivets
show connection at once (in this case U and V) loosen the four screws
on the wafer and adjust for the correct single contact.

At some point wear will put this adjustment out of range of the
available correction on the wafer. If that is the case you'll either
have to file out those holes to allow more adjustment rotation, or in
extreme cases you may move all the wires back -one rivet-. Before you
do this make sure you'll be able to move the wafer back in the other
direction far enough.

Another point here is that the rotation wiper should be reasonably
even against each rivet.

After a while the tiny spring that pulls back each stepper clapper
will become weak. If that happens you can cut away a -slight- amount
of spring to increase tension. It's better to replace that spring, but
for home use this will be adequate.

Did you replace the 5mfd non polarized cap and are you sure that the
2050 is strong?

Rob/NYC









On Dec 9, 1:11*pm, Tec-9 wrote:
Hey all-
* * * *As I mentioned in a earlier thread, I had plans to hook a
wallbox up to my 161. I got one, and have it hooked up, and it works
almost perfect except for this:
All selections seem to work until you get to U8. Almost like the
contact for U8 is flaky.
U8 will sometime play T8
V8 will sometimes play U8
It has worked correctly though....maybe once or twice in 20 tries.

To make things a little more confusing, here is what sometimes
happens:
You make ONE selection V8...it plays U8....after that song is over, it
plays V8....Any ideas on where to look??

I have reacpped the selection receiver and stepper. When selections
are made from the keys on 161 it works fine. I tried cleaning the
rotating switch switch plate contacts, and they look clean. Is there
any other switches I should look at or clean?

Thanks!
* * * * *Mark

Rob-
Thanks for the reply! I just recapped the stepper, and replaced
the 5mfd cap, and installed a new "tested" 2050 tube. ( I bought two
of them, and have swapped them in my troubleshooting just to be sure)
I don't think my stepper is very worn...it looks in good condition,
and the tube was missing when I got it, so maybe it has only seen
limited use? (this is my first jukebox I've tinkered with so I'm far
from an expert) I was able to follow your advice though, and I think
you might be on to something with the stepper wiper contacts. I was
able to see that contacts were VERY misaligned on the letter stepper
unit. I took it apart and realigned it. It seems to be working better
now....I did about ten selections on the V letter (which is the max on
the stepper) and it selected properly. I'm not holding my breath
though...it was working intermittently last night. I am going to put
it through some more selection cycles later tonight and see it keeps
working correctly.
Thanks again for the advice-
Mark

It sounds like you have things under control.

A couple of points:

1) The 5mfd cap must be non-polarized and it's value is critical. I
had a situation earlier this year with a stepper recently installed in
a commercial location. During testing at home the stepper appeared OK -
on heavier use at the loc' it would miscount approx 1 in 15-20 plays.
In rebuilding it I used a Cornell-Dublier 5mfd/np@ 300v cap which
seemed perfect for this application. After seeing the stepper had no
mechanical faults I measured that cap: it came out to 6.5 mfd. I
replaced it with my usual array of 5, 1mfd mylars on a terminal strip
which were accurate and the stepper became 100% as well. It is
common for electrolytic caps to vary upwards sometimes by 50%+. This
normally doesn't matter but in this type of circuit where the cap is
critical in controlling pulse height and duration it does matter.

2) I'd recommend replacing the 100 ohm one watt resistor in the plate
of the 2050 with a half watt. The purpose here is for the resistor to
act as a long-delay fuse if the signal line becomes shorted.

Lastly, you can check for excessive resistance on the wallbox keyboard
contacts by disconnecting it and running ohm meter checks from signal
terminal-to-ground as you slowly turn the wiper blade over each
rivet. Don't be too up surprised if you see several hundred ohms
resistance and it jumps around if you tap the keys -these old boxes
will always have some resistance. In extreme cases you can wash the
box and reduce resistance quite a bit..but for home use that may not
be necessary.

Rob/NYC

Rob-
Thanks again for your reply. I replaced my the 5uf cap with one
that was supposedly a exact replacement:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120646738470... 4.m1439.l2649

I'll look into the resistor on the 2050 tube, and I will have to look
at the wallbox keyboard buttons. I have not had a chance to dig into
the wall-box, and I haven't found a manual for it online. I can find
the 100 and 200 selection wallbox manual, but not for the 160 wallbox.
Is the 200 selection wallbox similar enough to use that manual? If so
I'll use that for now.
Many thanks for the info!!!
-Mark

Mark, the issue as far as what manual to se depends on what box you
have. If the box has an "S" -for single pricing, then any of the
single pricing boxes either 160 or 200 should be adequate. These
boxes are so simple that you really don't need a manual...Just some
common sense.

I should have the schematics for all of them which I can scan in and
post if needed.

If you have a box with a dual pricing unit, these are more complex in
that they accumulate credit from multiple coins, have two possible
pricing schemes and cancel credit electrically. All of the 160's that
I have seen were single pricing..but Seeburg did make duals for 160 as
well.

Since you are already making selections I'd suggest thorough lubing of
motor, gears and cam surfaces. The light sockets need to have their
outer "cans" soldered to the chassis for better connection. this
involves cleaning the area, scraping with small contact file and
sweating solder to from the can to the surface it is mounted on.
Sometimes the center contact will need reinforcement too.

If the pages are scraping the bottom from of the viewing area you'll
need to remove the top light assembly, remove the Tinneman clip and
pull the spline out through the bottom of the pages. Then add a small
bolt, or in some cases you can simply move the spacing collar at the
top of the pages to the bottom. Then work the spline back up through
the page hinges.

Rob/NYC

Seems like the wallbox function has been working fine now. Inside the
jukebox, I took apart the letter stepper, and cleaned all the
contacts, re-aligned everything, and lubed necessary parts, and it has
been appears to be working fine. (keeping my fingers crossed!) The
wallbox is in great shape, and it looks like someone had already
soldered the sockets (as you recommended) for a more secure
connection. The pages flip nicely, so I won't mess with them. I
haven't really took apart too much on the wallbox...I had the program
listing pages out, and while they were out, I lubed the motor and
gears. I cleaned the contacts on the stepper plate in the wallbox. I
couldn't really figure out how to get to the selection keys on the
wallbox, and didn't see any info in the manuals about the keyboard
removal or cleaning. It's working now, so I kinda feel like I would be
pushing my luck tearing that apart. Thanks again for the info....I
think you nailed it when you mentioned about alignment on the letter
stepper plate. After testing it like you said, and a good cleaning and
lubing she's been working perfect.
Thanks-
Mark