Star of David, Cross, etc....

mz wrote:

Frank wrote...

Nathan does nice stuff but he often does not make clear its pens he is
making in his home. Currently. They are in no way shape or form pens
made by Waterman, Parker or anyone else other than him. Yes, he uses
parts from those pens, but they are altered, in fact, simply home made
pens. Nice work but no one should ever think of them as pens made by
any company other than the Nathan Tardiff company. They are not and
never will be or should be really called Waterman or Parker pens. Frank

Thanks, Frank. I thought I'd missed something.

Mark Z.


Looking at the so called Waterman link again I'm not sure if Nathan or
someone else made it. Its on the penoply site, not Nathans. Nathan
gives no info nor does the link say anything but Waterman. That is the
problem. The lack of disclosure. Its not a Waterman pen at all. No
way. No how. Actually there have been dozens of swastika pens made in
the last 20 years by various people. I've seen several at shows. Some
really nice. Some crude. Any good jewler could cook one up in a week
or so for the right price if you wanted one and you supplied the parts
or he had access to them. I'm sure this will be a great source of
confusion in the future for collectors. IMHO all such pens should be
clearly marked and also dated in a clear and not easily removable way on
the pen itself by whoever makes them. The surest way to avoid confusion
in the future. Frank

http://members.aol.com/repairpens/ju...ian/index.html

The above is MY link...theone that was first posted!! The other link is an
entirely different site with NO RELATION TO ME!! Argh! Mine are marked, and I
stated clearly they are not original. I have also made small "TX" marks with
the year of "production".

Scaupaug wrote...


Why is that confusing? Waterman never made one - NEVER. Those swastika
"waterman's" started to show up only in the past year or so (two confirmed
South American). The overlays I put on the Waterman 412 base pens were my
reply to that work and has no relation to that link (which is to another
site
entirely if you look at the address). They are not original
either...waterman
never made pens like that - but I believe they are far better than putting
swastikas on pens post WW II. That's my opinion...take it as you will.
It was
just an act of expression with a couple pens.


I was confused because the second post, with the link to the penopoly page,
had no comment or explanation. I wasn't sure whether it was a rebuttal,
there had been a typo in the OP, or some troll was impersonating you to
cause problems, though the last seemed unlikely from the headers. I wasn't
aware that there are vintage Waterman's to which swastikas had been recently
added, so the purpose of the link was lost on me. Thanks for helping to
clear this up.

Mark Z.

TheMontblanc pens sold here in the Middle East most definitely have the
"bird poop" on them. In fact, as Montblanc is considered to be a status
symbol, I suspect that sales would drop if it was omitted.
John Quinn
Dubai, United Arab Emirates


"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"marlinspike" wrote:

I read somewhere the word swastika in reference to a pen, but no
picture. I was sure it was just coincidence but I guess they
actually did put swastikas on pens?! How about a pen with a
crescent moon on it? A Buddah (though, I guess, Buddhism is more of
a state of being than a religion?)?

I remember reading that Montblanc pens sold to Islamic countires lack
the bird poop as it could be construed to resemble the Star of David.
I have no idea if that's really true or just myth.

A Buddha (meaning "awakened one" and not necessarily referring to the
historical Siddhartha Gautama- there are many Buddhas) would be tough
to make meaningful on a pen as a simple outline, although one could
engrave (or maki-e) one of the famous Buddha statues from many places
in the world. Like most religions, Buddhism has many symbols that
would be more easily rendered.