Canada postmarks no 1

having digested the German contingent it is Canada's turn.

1. on a 1937 3c KG6. 2 x cds ( or possibly an oval ) On 1 (or 1
side ) ???ouf B then (E or F) then C&M. On 2 (or 2nd side) N C P R.

I have tried a couple of acronym finders but cannot find anything-
could cpr refer to Canadian Pacific Railway ?

2. Win(ink smudge)on Ontario on a 1c wartime def.

3.?(R?)(I?)ERVILLE on a 1977 14c Parliament

4. 2 cds on a 50c Textiles - 1 is???ides sub 24 PQ, other is ??? val?
des R. Is there a sub PO "Invalides" in either Montreal or Quebec City
( as apropos Les Invalides in Paris).

5.Stans (/ ?)???? P ( Q ?) on a 10c wartime.

6 ???? AMBTON ( note not amPton) on a 5c Karch

7. ?? de_Lava (l ?) - almost certain I have heard of a Laval
somewhere in respect of Quebec.

8. 25c Chemicals. I think a rectangular parcel cancel 2229 Do?????
Ontario. Almost certainly either Don Mills or Downsview but does
anyone know which is 2229.

9. A cds " Toronto Registered Mail". Is it normal to have a seperate
cds, rather than a branch office counter stamp

As usual I am grateful for any input.

Malcolm

malcolm wrote:
having digested the German contingent it is Canada's turn.

1. on a 1937 3c KG6. 2 x cds ( or possibly an oval ) On 1 (or 1
side ) ???ouf B then (E or F) then C&M. On 2 (or 2nd side) N C P R.

I have tried a couple of acronym finders but cannot find anything-
could cpr refer to Canadian Pacific Railway ?

There is a lot of literature available on Canadian Railway Post
Office cancellations. I don't own any of it myself, and I don't see too
much helpful stuff on a quick Google search (the only "C&M" I find is
for the Coopersville & Mame railway, which I think is in Michigan, not
Canada).

2. Win(ink smudge)on Ontario on a 1c wartime def.

Windsor, ON is a large enough city to be the expected answer, I
would say.

3.?(R?)(I?)ERVILLE on a 1977 14c Parliament

4. 2 cds on a 50c Textiles - 1 is???ides sub 24 PQ, other is ??? val?
des R. Is there a sub PO "Invalides" in either Montreal or Quebec City
( as apropos Les Invalides in Paris).

5.Stans (/ ?)???? P ( Q ?) on a 10c wartime.

6 ???? AMBTON ( note not amPton) on a 5c Karch

7. ?? de_Lava (l ?) - almost certain I have heard of a Laval
somewhere in respect of Quebec.

8. 25c Chemicals. I think a rectangular parcel cancel 2229 Do?????
Ontario. Almost certainly either Don Mills or Downsview but does
anyone know which is 2229.

The 2229 is known as the Money Order Office Number (MOON). Again,
plenty of printed literature listing all of that stuff, but I don't know
of any websites. The 4-digit MOON numbers are now obsolete, having been
replaced by 6-digit POCON numbers (Post Office Computer Organization
Number).

9. A cds " Toronto Registered Mail". Is it normal to have a seperate
cds, rather than a branch office counter stamp

As usual I am grateful for any input.

Malcolm

Ryan

Hi

Here are a few possibles:

In article
,
malcolm wrote:

having digested the German contingent it is Canada's turn.

1. on a 1937 3c KG6. 2 x cds ( or possibly an oval ) On 1 (or 1
side ) ???ouf B then (E or F) then C&M. On 2 (or 2nd side) N C P R.

I have tried a couple of acronym finders but cannot find anything-
could cpr refer to Canadian Pacific Railway ?


A scan would be more helpful. CPR indeed is Canadian Pacific Railways.
If the concel is indeed oval and the ink violet, it is likely a fiscal
cancel and, almost certainly a bank cancel as stamps were required on
checks in that period. Fiscal and postal stamps were used without
distinction for fiscal uses, it did not work the other way around:
fiscal stamps did not serve for postal usages.

2. Win(ink smudge)on Ontario on a 1c wartime def.

3.?(R?)(I?)ERVILLE on a 1977 14c Parliament

Most likely IBERVILLE, Quebec

4. 2 cds on a 50c Textiles - 1 is???ides sub 24 PQ, other is ??? val?
des R. Is there a sub PO "Invalides" in either Montreal or Quebec City
( as apropos Les Invalides in Paris).

Looks like «Laval des Rapides» (Sub 1 to 28 are known) a Montreal suburb
now amalgamated into Laval. No «Invalides» that I know of around here.
I would know.

5.Stans (/ ?)???? P ( Q ?) on a 10c wartime.

Could be Stanstead, Quebec

6 ???? AMBTON ( note not amPton) on a 5c Karch

Possibly Lambton, Quebec

7. ?? de_Lava (l ?) - almost certain I have heard of a Laval
somewhere in respect of Quebec.

Almost certainly Ville de Laval, Quebec

8. 25c Chemicals. I think a rectangular parcel cancel 2229 Do?????
Ontario. Almost certainly either Don Mills or Downsview but does
anyone know which is 2229.

9. A cds " Toronto Registered Mail". Is it normal to have a seperate
cds, rather than a branch office counter stamp
A transit mark for registered mail passing through ; applied on the back
of the envelope.

As usual I am grateful for any input.

Malcolm

Richard

Thanks Ryan and Richard.

As usual I am overwhelmed by the knowledge,generosity and sometimes
inspired guesswork on this board.

A few further notes.

1. Is a steel mark is black like a postmark. I presume the purple
revenue cancels are usually rubber ? It also has a "postmark" type
date slug which I think reads nov 28 38. Re-examination throws doubt
on my CPR conclusion- it appears to be N. then 2 smaller lettersR. I
am also now convinced it is a largeish cds, and the writing goes all
the way around so the complete inscription is long. - the O of OUF is
level with the 3 of 38 and at a very obtuse angle. like the beginning
of the word will be right at bthe bottom. Also the B may not be a B as
it is very narrow with no base , this means that the F could be an E
with the bottom missing. There are also figures above the nov 28 which
could be a time/collection/machine code but this is illegible. Could
my OUFBFC &M be Quebec something - bearing in mind that all the
bottoms of the letters seem to be distorted ? In fact I am sure that
it is - it all fits together. So any other ideas?

8. I think I have spotted an E in the town name which would make it
Downsview. Although the postmark IS rectangular it is almost square,
and only the width of the stamp. It is almost like a "Krag" machine
impression as used in the Uk but without the connections. I am sure
that I have seen similar Canadian postmarks before. Presumable 25c
would have been either parcel, overseas or registration rate at the
time. I would chop the ******* s of whoever removed that stamp from
Cover or piece.

3. Cannot be Iberville - not a long enough name - the symmetry is all
wrong. There are I guess 3 letters prior to to my suggested "R" before
"ierville". It is much easier when you have the beginning rather than
the end of a word !!

2. I am now not sure that the first letter is W and I estimate at
least 4 possibly 5 letters between the N and the ON. It could remotely
be Kingston if the slant on the K were to start right at the bottom of
the upright.

I can buy into all the other conclusions that you collectively
reached. Thanks once again for your help. Even when the result is
negative it can help one to look at things in a different light.Hence
my Quebec conclusion above. It is almost like thinking aloud to get a
reaction.

Malcolm







On Jan 16, 5:34*am, Richard Thouin wrote:
Hi

Here are a few possibles:

In article
,

*malcolm wrote:
having digested the German contingent it is Canada's turn.

1. on a 1937 3c KG6. 2 x cds ( or possibly an oval ) On 1 (or 1
side ) ???ouf *B then (E or F) then C&M. On 2 (or 2nd side) N C P R.

I have tried a couple of acronym finders but cannot find anything-
could *cpr refer to Canadian Pacific Railway ?

A scan would be more helpful. *CPR indeed is Canadian Pacific Railways. *
If the concel is indeed oval and the ink violet, it is likely a fiscal
cancel and, almost certainly a bank cancel as stamps were required on
checks in that period. Fiscal and postal stamps were used without
distinction for fiscal uses, it did not work the other way around:
fiscal stamps did not serve for postal usages.

2. Win(ink smudge)on Ontario on a 1c wartime def.

3.?(R?)(I?)ERVILLE on a 1977 14c Parliament

Most likely IBERVILLE, Quebec

4. 2 cds on a 50c Textiles *- 1 is???ides sub 24 PQ, other is ??? val?
des *R. Is there a sub PO "Invalides" in either Montreal or Quebec City
( as apropos Les Invalides in Paris).

Looks like «Laval des Rapides» (Sub 1 to 28 are known) a Montreal suburb
now amalgamated into Laval. *No «Invalides» that I know of around here. *
I would know.

5.Stans (/ ?)???? P ( Q ?) on a 10c wartime.

Could be Stanstead, Quebec

6 *???? AMBTON ( note not amPton) on a 5c Karch

Possibly Lambton, Quebec

7. ?? de_Lava (l ?) - almost certain *I have heard of a Laval
somewhere in respect of Quebec.

Almost certainly Ville de Laval, Quebec

8. 25c Chemicals. I think a rectangular parcel cancel 2229 Do?????
Ontario. Almost certainly either Don Mills or Downsview but does
anyone *know which is 2229.

9. A cds " Toronto Registered Mail". Is it normal to have a seperate
cds, rather than a branch office counter stamp

A transit mark for registered mail passing through ; applied on the back
of the envelope.

As usual I am grateful for any input.

Malcolm

Richard

A further thought on W.......ON.

Winterton would fit. However this is in Newfoundland and the stamp
definitely shows Canada and it is dated 1945.

However I note that Newfoundland today is actually "Newfoundland and
Labrador". Was Labrador formerly in Canada before Newfoundland joined
the Confederation, and was Winterton then in Labrador ?

My historical knowledge of canada is not very good and I am clutching
at straws !!

Malcolm

Hi Malcolm. Could no. 3 be Cartierville (Montreal West)? Cartie.... a wee
bit longer than Ibe...... ?
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- http://www.amedialuz.ca/

"malcolm" wrote in message
...
Thanks Ryan and Richard.

As usual I am overwhelmed by the knowledge,generosity and sometimes
inspired guesswork on this board.

A few further notes.

1. Is a steel mark is black like a postmark. I presume the purple
revenue cancels are usually rubber ? It also has a "postmark" type
date slug which I think reads nov 28 38. Re-examination throws doubt
on my CPR conclusion- it appears to be N. then 2 smaller lettersR. I
am also now convinced it is a largeish cds, and the writing goes all
the way around so the complete inscription is long. - the O of OUF is
level with the 3 of 38 and at a very obtuse angle. like the beginning
of the word will be right at bthe bottom. Also the B may not be a B as
it is very narrow with no base , this means that the F could be an E
with the bottom missing. There are also figures above the nov 28 which
could be a time/collection/machine code but this is illegible. Could
my OUFBFC &M be Quebec something - bearing in mind that all the
bottoms of the letters seem to be distorted ? In fact I am sure that
it is - it all fits together. So any other ideas?

8. I think I have spotted an E in the town name which would make it
Downsview. Although the postmark IS rectangular it is almost square,
and only the width of the stamp. It is almost like a "Krag" machine
impression as used in the Uk but without the connections. I am sure
that I have seen similar Canadian postmarks before. Presumable 25c
would have been either parcel, overseas or registration rate at the
time. I would chop the ******* s of whoever removed that stamp from
Cover or piece.

3. Cannot be Iberville - not a long enough name - the symmetry is all
wrong. There are I guess 3 letters prior to to my suggested "R" before
"ierville". It is much easier when you have the beginning rather than
the end of a word !!

2. I am now not sure that the first letter is W and I estimate at
least 4 possibly 5 letters between the N and the ON. It could remotely
be Kingston if the slant on the K were to start right at the bottom of
the upright.

I can buy into all the other conclusions that you collectively
reached. Thanks once again for your help. Even when the result is
negative it can help one to look at things in a different light.Hence
my Quebec conclusion above. It is almost like thinking aloud to get a
reaction.

Malcolm







On Jan 16, 5:34 am, Richard Thouin wrote:
Hi

Here are a few possibles:

In article
,

malcolm wrote:
having digested the German contingent it is Canada's turn.

1. on a 1937 3c KG6. 2 x cds ( or possibly an oval ) On 1 (or 1
side ) ???ouf B then (E or F) then C&M. On 2 (or 2nd side) N C P R.

I have tried a couple of acronym finders but cannot find anything-
could cpr refer to Canadian Pacific Railway ?

A scan would be more helpful. CPR indeed is Canadian Pacific Railways.
If the concel is indeed oval and the ink violet, it is likely a fiscal
cancel and, almost certainly a bank cancel as stamps were required on
checks in that period. Fiscal and postal stamps were used without
distinction for fiscal uses, it did not work the other way around:
fiscal stamps did not serve for postal usages.

2. Win(ink smudge)on Ontario on a 1c wartime def.

3.?(R?)(I?)ERVILLE on a 1977 14c Parliament

Most likely IBERVILLE, Quebec

4. 2 cds on a 50c Textiles - 1 is???ides sub 24 PQ, other is ??? val?
des R. Is there a sub PO "Invalides" in either Montreal or Quebec City
( as apropos Les Invalides in Paris).

Looks like «Laval des Rapides» (Sub 1 to 28 are known) a Montreal suburb
now amalgamated into Laval. No «Invalides» that I know of around here.
I would know.

5.Stans (/ ?)???? P ( Q ?) on a 10c wartime.

Could be Stanstead, Quebec

6 ???? AMBTON ( note not amPton) on a 5c Karch

Possibly Lambton, Quebec

7. ?? de_Lava (l ?) - almost certain I have heard of a Laval
somewhere in respect of Quebec.

Almost certainly Ville de Laval, Quebec

8. 25c Chemicals. I think a rectangular parcel cancel 2229 Do?????
Ontario. Almost certainly either Don Mills or Downsview but does
anyone know which is 2229.

9. A cds " Toronto Registered Mail". Is it normal to have a seperate
cds, rather than a branch office counter stamp

A transit mark for registered mail passing through ; applied on the back
of the envelope.

As usual I am grateful for any input.

Malcolm

Richard

In a recent message malcolm wrote:

A further thought on W.......ON.

Winterton would fit. However this is in Newfoundland and the stamp
definitely shows Canada and it is dated 1945.

However I note that Newfoundland today is actually "Newfoundland and
Labrador". Was Labrador formerly in Canada before Newfoundland joined
the Confederation, and was Winterton then in Labrador ?

My historical knowledge of canada is not very good and I am clutching
at straws !!

It is complex.

In 1763 Labrador was transferred from (French) Canada to Newfoundland.
In 1774 it was transferred to Quebec
In 1791 Quebec was split and Labrador became part of Lower Canada
In 1809 Labrador was transferred back to Newfoundland.
In 1825 part of Labrador on the North Shore of the St.Lawrence was transferred back to Lower Canada
When the province of Quebec was set up again they believed Labrador,
apart from a one mile wide strip along the coast, should be theirs,
as the ruling referred to the Coast of Labrador. In 1927 this was resolved.
In 1949 Newfoundland (including Labrador) became a province of Canada.

Quebec still disputes the boundary...

--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS using VirtualAcorn-SA running on a PC
.... A lie that can be passed off as truth becomes truth.

malcolm wrote:
Thanks Ryan and Richard.

As usual I am overwhelmed by the knowledge,generosity and sometimes
inspired guesswork on this board.

A few further notes.
....
3. Cannot be Iberville - not a long enough name - the symmetry is all
wrong. There are I guess 3 letters prior to to my suggested "R" before
"ierville". It is much easier when you have the beginning rather than
the end of a word !!

Napierville is a town in Quebec that would fit what you describe.
But I would have to guess that "-ville" is such a common suffix that
it's likely not the only one ...
Hmmm .... try a text search on "ierville" on the following
Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ties_in_Quebec

Laurierville (population 1512)
Fortierville (pop. 689)
Chartierville (pop. 363)
Berthierville (pop. 3977)
Napierville (pop. 3310)

Of course, the current definition of "municipality" probably
doesn't include all possibilities, but it's a start.

Ryan

Tony

I guess that lets out Winterton. I have used www.fallingrain.com, but
I am not convinced that every place is included - and in any case
places change their name from time to time and 1945 was a long time
ago. Certainly there is nowhere on the current list which fits the
bill for the number of letters assuming that the first letter is W.

Ryan

Any of those would fit the bill. However bearing in mind that this is
a modern stamp, and the world-wide trend to concentrate mail
postmarking to ever larger centres, I am not sure that any of them are
credible for the 1970s in view of the small populations.

I guess they will have to go back in the envelope for later
investigation - I have too many other things on the boil at the
moment.

The problems with postmark id are relatively easy if one is sure one
has the first letters, but if one only has the middle or the end it
gets very difficult. I have found a site in France which identifies
possible French codes given any string of letters, and the Australia
Post postcode site also has this facility. Also where there is a
postcode shown on the postmark there is often a "reverse search"
facility which can be used to identify places with part strings.

I will be back later with offerings from other countries.

Thanks to everyone who had a look whether they replied or not.

Malcolm

I did a Google on Cartierville and came up with a wiki on the Borough
of Ahuntic-Cartierville in Montreal with a population of more than
100,000. This would appear to be a much more likely candidate.

Again my knowledge of Canada is not extensive, but reading between the
lines this appears to be a somewhat artificial lumping together of
several diverse communities to make a decent sized administrative area
( it happens here in the UK too ). It would therefore follow that a
large post office in the district of Cartierville could exist with
it's own postmark. I don't know about Canada but here in the UK
boundaries of Civic Districts and Post office divisions seldom
coincide - and local knowledge is often necessary to follow the
labrinthine thinking.

Unless I hear to the contrary ( or I come across something else on the
net while looking for something else ) I think I am going to go with
this.

Malcolm