Problems with Private Reserve Ink?

I recently visited a pen seller's site that had a note about Private Reserve
inks saying that using them voided the seller's warranty. I've been using
Private Reserve Black Cherry in a couple of my pens and haven't noticed any
problems.

Does anyone have an explanation or caution about this?

Thanks!

Was the note at a pen seller's site, or at the site of the pen manufacturer?

I've been using PR inks for more years than I care to acknowledge, and
haven't had issues with them clogging pens. I have noticed that some colors
do not dry well on certain papers (specifically Franklin Covey inserts).

You should carefully read "L, not -L"'s note about certain colors and their
incompatibility with other inks when mixed.


"Argent" wrote in message
...
I recently visited a pen seller's site that had a note about Private
Reserve
inks saying that using them voided the seller's warranty. I've been using
Private Reserve Black Cherry in a couple of my pens and haven't noticed
any
problems.

Does anyone have an explanation or caution about this?

Thanks!

Bernie Schmitt wrote:

Was the note at a pen seller's site, or at the
site of the pen manufacturer?

The warning appears on Rick Propas's site.
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/penguin0/

I would suggest that if the OP has a question about Rick's policy he ask
Rick directly. Rick refurbishes and also sells vintage pens
(particularly old Pelikans). I'm sure Rick has his reasons for adopting
such a policy. If someone else is posting a similar warning, I'd
definitely want to ask them directly.

I've been using PR inks for more years than I care
to acknowledge

Geez, this makes it sound like they've been making ink for decades.
Actually, Private Reserve is very new to the business. I remember when
they were introduced... late 1990s... maybe '98 or '99. Perhaps there's
a difference in our respective ages, but 7 or 8 years doesn't seem long
ago to me (unfortunately). Noodler's is newer yet. Compared with
companies like Herbin which has been making ink for 300+ years or
Pelikan which has been making ink for about 168 years Private Reserve
and Noodler's are still very young indeed. Even Sheaffer Skrip (1922)
and Parker Quink (1931) have been around for decades. -- B

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:12:19 -0500, Argent typed:

I recently visited a pen seller's site that had a note about Private Reserve
inks saying that using them voided the seller's warranty. I've been using
Private Reserve Black Cherry in a couple of my pens and haven't noticed any
problems.

Does anyone have an explanation or caution about this?

Thanks!

No problems, and I've used PR in five daily writer-rotation pens for
the past three years or so; Herbin in the others. Nope, no problems at
all.

I'd ask the seller directly what problems he's found...
--
Cordially,

S. Dasara
12/30/2005 3:21:28 PM

BL wrote:

"Sheaffer Skrip (1922) and Parker Quink (1931) have been around for
decades."

No. The brand names have been around for decades, but you cannot
assert that the Skrip you buy today is in any way related to the
original Skrip. Modern Skrip is outsourced to a different company in
Slovenia, a change which came after PR started. Private Reserve can
claim seniority on modern Skrip.

And Quink? Well, dye companies regularly change their offerings, and
ink companies remix to achieve what is apparently the same color.
Quink is extremely unlikely to use the same dyes, the same surfectants,
definitely not the same anti-fungals, and so on that they used sixty
years ago. I would even tell you that modern Quink is much more washed
out than vintage Quink, and flows worse. Modern Quink is about as
related to vintage Quink as a modern Duofold is related to a vintage
one. Sorta yeah, sorta no.

Oh, they still use water, so in that way they are the same. Otherwise,
claims of reliability based on the decades of existance are spurious.

Nick Name wrote:

No. The brand names have been around for decades,
but you cannot assert that the Skrip you buy today
is in any way related to the original Skrip.
Modern Skrip is outsourced to a different company
in Slovenia, a change which came after PR
started. Private Reserve can claim seniority on
modern Skrip.

If you assume that Sheaffer has absolutely nothing to say about how the
company in Slovenia is making the ink, then you'd be correct. But, of
course, the company in Slovenia is manufacturing the ink to *Sheaffer's
specs* and therefore your claim is specious.

And Quink? Well, dye companies regularly change
their offerings, and ink companies remix to
achieve what is apparently the same color. Quink
is extremely unlikely to use the same dyes, the
same surfectants, definitely not the same anti-
fungals, and so on that they used sixty years
ago. I would even tell you that modern Quink is
much more washed out than vintage Quink, and flows
worse. Modern Quink is about as related to
vintage Quink as a modern Duofold is related to a
vintage one. Sorta yeah, sorta no.

Let's take Quink Washable Blue as an example. I don't see much of a
difference at all between Quink Washable Blue cir. 1930s and the modern
stuff, and I bet most people would be hard pressed to tell the
difference vis-a-vis flow characteristics, color, saturation, or stain
potential. They are very similar. Quink Blue-Black used to contain iron
gall which is no longer the case. I find the new Blue Black far more
free flowing than the cir. 1930s Blue Black or Royal Blue both of which
have a grayer cast to them. So yeah, Parker may have modified the
formulation of some of their inks, but
Quink was always a mild, safe ink to use with fountain pens, and it's
still a mild, safe ink to use with fountain pens. Nope, I don't expect
Parker to start making highly concentrated, greasy, smudge- prone inks
in a multitude of tooty fruity colors anytime soon.

Oh, they still use water, so in that way they are
the same. Otherwise, claims of reliability based
on the decades of existance are spurious.

You have not stated, except in the vaguest of terms, what they've
changed. So what anti-fungal agent did they use and what one are they
using now? In what way does the modern iteration of Quink Washable Blue
differ from the cir. 1930s iteration? How many complaints about Quink
(vis-a-vis clogging, staining, coagulating, mold growth, constituents
precipitating out of solution, etc.) have appeared on the various pen
boards over the past 8 years? How does Quink's track record stack up
against the much shorter track records of the new inks? Quink's enviable
track record is a testament to Parker's 70 years of experience
manufacturing high quality inks. -- B

BL wrote:

" If you assume that Sheaffer has absolutely nothing to say about how
the
company in Slovenia is making the ink, then you'd be correct. But, of
course, the company in Slovenia is manufacturing the ink to *Sheaffer's
specs* and therefore your claim is specious."

Okay, I owe you an apology. I meant to have a serious discussion, but
in reading over my words I see that I came on too strong. Let me try
again. My point is that the ingredients in the new Slovenian Skrip are
entirely different than the Skrip of 1922. They are not even the same
color. New Skrip may be good and it may be bad, but it could only be
the inheritor of 83 years of reliability if it was completely
unchanged. My claim is not specious, it is fact. New Skrip and old
Skrip are not the same. That is not opinion.

BL again: "Let's take Quink Washable Blue as an example. I don't see
much of a difference at all between Quink Washable Blue cir. 1930s and
the modern stuff."

Much of a difference? No, it is not much, but it is a difference. I
have a couple bottles of Quink with Vac ads on the box. The vintage
permanent green is close but darker, and as is the vintage washable
blue. No evaporation, by the way.

BL again: "and I bet most people would be hard pressed to tell the
difference vis-a-vis flow characteristics, color, saturation, or stain
potential. They are very similar."

Whether or not people can tell is absolutely irrelevant to the question
of whether or not it is unchanged. One is opinion, the other is fact.
Can you tell that Coke is changed? It is. Coke used to be sweetened
with only sugar. It now has corn syrup. Quink has different
ingredients now as well.

BL: "Quink was always a mild, safe ink to use with fountain pens, and
it's still a mild, safe ink to use with fountain pens."

Where did I deny this? That was never the point.

BL: "Nope, I don't expect Parker to start making highly concentrated,
greasy, smudge- prone inks in a multitude of tooty fruity colors
anytime soon."

This must be a reaction to the harsh tone of my first post, because you
certainly know about Penman.

BL: "You have not stated, except in the vaguest of terms, what they've
changed. So what anti-fungal agent did they use and what one are they
using now?"

Phenol, which was classified a carcinogen about a decade ago, so the
ink manufacturers started looking for different anti-fungals. Sanford
reportedly has an excellent one, which is why Waterman and Parker in
have not had reports of SITB. And what ink had the first SITB
problems? Pelikan green and black? And why does vintage Quink smell
of phenol and modern Quink doesn't?

BL: "How does Quink's track record stack up against the much shorter
track records of the new inks? Quink's enviable track record is a
testament to Parker's 70 years of experience manufacturing high quality
inks."

Track record is only relevant if the ink is unchanged. Your argument
is exactly the same as saying the modern Parker Duofold is a reliable
pen because the 1926 Duofold was a reliable pen.

For your perusal and enlightenment, the rest of my message is cut and
pasted from Greg Clark's web site, which directly contradicts your
major points:



"Who Really Made That Fountain Pen Ink?

I really hope that I don't dump any rain on anybody's parade, but I'll
bet your favorite ink wasn't made by the company whose name is on the
box!

Due to the intensely competitive and internationally diversified nature
of business today, very few companies selling fountain pen ink actually
make their own product. At this point in time, I can only think of six
companies, that I am sure of, that do indeed make all or part of their
own ink.

The first company that comes to mind is the venerable Sheaffer Pen Co.
of Fort Madison, Iowa. They have been making their own ink under the
Skrip label since the early part of this century and I believe they
still do. However - all of their ink formulae have changed and all of
their inks are now made in their facility in Slovenia.

Second would be the equally well known Parker Pen Co. of Janesville
Wisconsin. They have been making the Quink brand for well over 60
years. However the Parker pens and Quink inks are no longer made in the
USA, they are made at the New Haven, England facility. The other Parker
ink line, Penman (discontinued), was never made by Parker. It was made
for them by Documentel of Germany .

A third company that I know makes their own ink is Herbin of France.
Herbin has been making vegetable based ink colors since the 1600s. In
addition to making their own inks, Herbin makes inks for other
companies, such as making the wonderful but discontinued Vespucci Red
ink for Omas of Italy.

Then there is the Rubinato ink company of Italy. Many boutique ink and
private lable brands are made by Rubinato. Seldom do you run accross
inks actually labled Rubinato, but most of the store brand and private
lable inks out of Italy are by Rubinato. Gnocchi and Colorado Pen
company inks are two that come to mind.

Next is a relative newcomer to the inkmaker ranks. The American company
Private Reserve of Zionville IL has been in the ink business for a
fairly short time. They started production in 1994. They custom bottle
inks for Bexley and Farhneys Pen Company as well as produce their own
line of inks. At last count they were up to about 22 colors!

And the newest brand in town is Noodlers ink. These are also made here
in the USA in New England. These inks are very interesting and boast
such unheard of before features as being truly waterproof and sun fade
proof. One ink - Polar Black - will even write well at -100 degrees F!
Last count was 30 inks in the line. Noodlers also makes inkes for
Pendemonium, Swisher pens and Art Brown pens.

With the possible exception of Herbin of France, even the words "made
by" are misleading. "Mixed by" would be a far more accurate description
of what actually takes place if the company even did that. Those few
companies that can claim to make their own ink usually simply blend
together several different standard commercial dyes that they purchase
from large industrial suppliers. Many of the dyes used are actually
intended for the clothing/textile industry. One company that does
specifically address the writing fluids industry is the Formulabs
Corporation of Escondito Ca. For more information on Formulabs, see the
November, 1996 issue of Pen World International magazine.

One problem that the ink companies have is that the writing fluids
industry is rather small compared to the textile industry. As a result,
fashion trends dictate sudden changes in what dye colors are kept on
hand, and ink manufacturers may find a needed dye color suddenly
unavailable. This results in frequent small changes in blending
formulas so that the consumer never notices any change in the beloved
product.

With this all said and done, I'm sure that it will have very little
real effect on your feelings for your favorite inks!"

Argent wrote:
I recently visited a pen seller's site that had a note about Private Reserve
inks saying that using them voided the seller's warranty. I've been using
Private Reserve Black Cherry in a couple of my pens and haven't noticed any
problems.

Does anyone have an explanation or caution about this?


Here are the facts: Private Reserve and Noodler's have higher
concentrations of dye in them. Ultimately, if you think that is a
problem, do not use them. Most ink with red does have a tendency to
stain pen parts such as ink windows, and this includes purple, pink,
and so on. The general concensus it that blue and black will do the
least damage and has held up the best in vintage inks, and I have no
argument against this position. If you have an outstanding example of
a vintage pen, use the gentlest blue you can fins, or do not ink it at
all. If you have a Pelikan 200, use whatever you please.

Noodler's and Private Reserve had some problems with things growing in
them, but both of them changed their anti-fungals, and reports of
problems diminished dramatically.

Rick Propas believes that Noodler's and Private Reserve quickly damage
pens. I dispute that, but Rick has every right to set conditions on
his warantees, and you have every right to disbelieve my opinion.

Black Cherry is a great color.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:35:31 GMT, "Bernie Schmitt" wrote:

Was the note at a pen seller's site, or at the site of the pen manufacturer?

It was on the seller's site.

You should carefully read "L, not -L"'s note about certain colors and their
incompatibility with other inks when mixed.

I noticed the warning about not mixing those colors on the Pendemonium page for
Private Reserve inks.

Thanks all for the helpful comments.

Argent wrote:
I recently visited a pen seller's site that had a note about Private Reserve
inks saying that using them voided the seller's warranty. I've been using
Private Reserve Black Cherry in a couple of my pens and haven't noticed any
problems.

Does anyone have an explanation or caution about this?

Thanks!

I had a problem with one bottle of P.R. Orange Crush.

Sam at Pendemonium advised that this particular color sometimes turns
brown, as mine did, when scanned at the airport during shipping.