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Elcaset- worth a try



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 07, 10:12 PM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
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Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

The more I look at Elcaset the more I'm liking that format- 1/4" 4-
track with 2 stereo sides- 2x faster than standard cassette- 2x wider
tracks than 8-track cartridge

Has anyone here tried the Elcaset ?

Looks like a kick-ass format to me.

Can't wait 'til I score a player !

Ads
  #2  
Old March 11th 07, 10:49 PM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
DeserTBoB
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Posts: 3,541
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On 11 Mar 2007 14:12:15 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote:

The more I look at Elcaset the more I'm liking that format- 1/4" 4-
track with 2 stereo sides- 2x faster than standard cassette- 2x wider
tracks than 8-track cartridge

Has anyone here tried the Elcaset ? snip


I had a Sony Elcaset recorder from a Superscope rep on accommodation
for awhile. It was a good enough home format, but it failed at
achieving the raison d'être for ANY prepackaged tape
system...smallness of size, convenience of use and yes, cost.

The Elcaset performed just about like any 3¾ IPS RTR deck of the
era...which is to say, not all that great, but would kick the crap out
of 8 track, noise and fidelity wise.

Looks like a kick-ass format to me. snip


It was, actually, the best performing of ALL packaged tape formats.
The expense and typical unreliability of Sony made it not work, and
Philips AG kicked their ass in the marketplace simply by pushing the
1981 IEC cassette standard changes, which increased the MOL of
cassette from 160 to 250 nWb/m. That put cassette, using Type II
tape, on a par with the Elcaset in several areas as far as consumer
users went, as did the use of micron gapped, assymetrical head bridges
that finally gave cassette a "virtual 3 head" configuration. Elcaset
lasted a scant 6 mos. in the marketplace before Sony threw in the
towel.

Anyone serious about tape, though, never touched the Elcaset. Why
give up all that versatility of a good, 3 motored, 3 head RTR just to
have a non-standard cassette you can't use anywhere else, anyway? Not
that they'd go with a Sony RTR, anyway, since they were universally
crap. Anyone who ever suffered with a Sony TC-630 or similar can
attest to that!

Can't wait 'til I score a player ! snip


LOTS of luck on that. There is a VERY tiny sect of Elcaset devotees,
and they don't like stunods like you, Noodlez. Elcaset players and
raw tape stock are quite expensive among collectors, but every now and
then some idiot will find them in an estate sales (like how you find a
lot of your crap, Noodlez) and sell them for a few bucks on fleaBay.
  #3  
Old March 12th 07, 12:10 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
duty-honor-country
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Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Mar 11, 4:49 pm, DeserTBoB wrote:

I had a Sony Elcaset recorder from a Superscope rep on accommodation
for awhile. It was a good enough home format, but it failed at
achieving the raison d'être for ANY prepackaged tape
system...smallness of size, convenience of use and yes, cost.


agreed- the smaller standard cassette won out, esp. when the metal
tape became as common as air

The Elcaset performed just about like any 3¾ IPS RTR deck of the
era...which is to say, not all that great, but would kick the crap out
of 8 track, noise and fidelity wise.


yep, that's what I'm after- I've tested just about every decent 8-cart
machine made, and need some new territory to investigate- there's very
few 8-cart onions left for me to peel at this point.


It was, actually, the best performing of ALL packaged tape formats.
The expense and typical unreliability of Sony made it not work, and
Philips AG kicked their ass in the marketplace simply by pushing the
1981 IEC cassette standard changes, which increased the MOL of
cassette from 160 to 250 nWb/m. That put cassette, using Type II
tape, on a par with the Elcaset in several areas as far as consumer
users went, as did the use of micron gapped, assymetrical head bridges
that finally gave cassette a "virtual 3 head" configuration. Elcaset
lasted a scant 6 mos. in the marketplace before Sony threw in the
towel.


I was under the impression is was released in 1976, and ran until
1980, when Sony sold out all their remaining stock at auction, to a
firm in Finland. The history is online.

Anyone serious about tape, though, never touched the Elcaset. Why
give up all that versatility of a good, 3 motored, 3 head RTR just to
have a non-standard cassette you can't use anywhere else, anyway? Not
that they'd go with a Sony RTR, anyway, since they were universally
crap. Anyone who ever suffered with a Sony TC-630 or similar can
attest to that!


I would not buy a Sony RTR- I had a 1/2" Sony R2R with auto reverse,
etc.- picked it up for $50- sold it quickly- good riddance. Didn't
even play it- tried one tape and it kept trying to auto-reverse at the
BEGINNING of the tape- the thing was HUGE- decided no, I don't need
this


LOTS of luck on that. There is a VERY tiny sect of Elcaset devotees,
and they don't like stunods like you, Noodlez. Elcaset players and
raw tape stock are quite expensive among collectors, but every now and
then some idiot will find them in an estate sales (like how you find a
lot of your crap, Noodlez) and sell them for a few bucks on fleaBay.


overall not a bad reply for you, considering you're usual banter. You
should try trading posts like that more often, instead of going
berserk on here. You'd find that if you give respect, you'll get
respect- and people only mirror what you project in their direction-
you were doing well, until that last paragraph.

someday you'll realize, what I say, I do. You really don't fathom who
you're dealing with here. That's good- I'd prefer to be under-
estimated, it gives me the advantage.

So we'll just see about the recording and fidelity qualities of the
Elcaset, first hand...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3664&rd=1&rd=1


  #4  
Old March 12th 07, 12:56 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
DeserTBoB
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Posts: 3,541
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On 11 Mar 2007 16:10:34 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote:

I was under the impression is was released in 1976, and ran until
1980, when Sony sold out all their remaining stock at auction, to a
firm in Finland. The history is online. snip


They were only in the audio stores for about six months or so around
1978, and withered quickly. Once news of the IEC updates by Philips
AG came out, Elcaset was finished, and Sony decided to concentrated on
Betamax...another flubbed move. Sony's management decisions in that
era sort of mirror GM's now.

I would not buy a Sony RTR- I had a 1/2" Sony R2R with auto reverse,
etc.- picked it up for $50- sold it quickly- good riddance. Didn't
even play it- tried one tape and it kept trying to auto-reverse at the
BEGINNING of the tape- the thing was HUGE- decided no, I don't need
this snip


½" Sony auto reverse?? I don't think so.

overall not a bad reply for you, considering you're usual banter. You
should try trading posts like that more often, instead of going
berserk on here. snip


That's YOUR bailiwick.

someday you'll realize, what I say, I do. You really don't fathom who
you're dealing with here. That's good- I'd prefer to be under-
estimated, it gives me the advantage. snip


Oh sure! Where are all your phantom "biker buds" and the like?
What're you going to tell me now...you're a "made guy?" I've got some
"made guy" friends down in Lansdale maybe you'd like to meet someday.

So we'll just see about the recording and fidelity qualities of the
Elcaset, first hand... snip


You can save yourself the aggravation. It'll perform very much like a
good quality consumer grade 3¾ IPS 4 track machine of the same era.
Getting cassettes for that thing is a real bitch. Tape handling is
superior to either of the "cartridge" formats, as is cassette.
Wow/flutter performance is only average, despite the appearance of
dual capstans. Any 7½ IPS machine from the same era using the same
format will clean this machine's clock. Many higher-end 10½" reel
machines were being offered by the likes of Technics, Akai, Pioneer,
Teac/Tascam all the way to ReVox at this time. Why would anyone
sersious about mag tape recording at home empty their wallets of the
same amount of cash for an EL-7, when any of the big RTRs of the era
were better all around.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3664&rd=1&rd=1


Bad investment...sorry!
  #5  
Old March 12th 07, 02:37 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
duty-honor-country
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Mar 11, 6:56 pm, DeserTBoB wrote:

They were only in the audio stores for about six months or so around
1978, and withered quickly. Once news of the IEC updates by Philips
AG came out, Elcaset was finished, and Sony decided to concentrated on
Betamax...another flubbed move.


Oddly enough, Beta decks bring big bucks now too. The kill date on
the Elcaset is well documented, they pulled the format in 1979-80 and
dumped what was left in Finland, see it here complete with ads in
Finnish newspapers.

http://home.claranet.nl/users/pb0aia...et/el-end.html

And he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset

Sony's management decisions in that
era sort of mirror GM's now.


GM is getting ready to buy Chrysler and Ford. When that happens, they
will become a huge mega-sized American corporation making cars,
approx. 3X the size of its nearest competitor, Toyota. And if you
think about it, things were never better in this country for the
average working man, than in the 1946-70 era, when nearly all the cars
we drove were made here- along with our clothes, appliances, textiles,
shoes, and even kids' toys. We need to get back to that ASAP. It
will create more jobs, and high paying union jobs at that. Don't you
agree ?


½" Sony auto reverse?? I don't think so.


Yes it was- my friend scored a reel and a Pioneer SX-1250 in an estate
buyout, I picked up both for $100, I still have the SX.


That's YOUR bailiwick.


you need to pick the stick out of your own eye, before you go levering
the log from someone else's- have you read your posting history ?
You're the one that just posted pictures of women from someone's
family on this group, that you dug up on the net. That's stalking in
the eyes of any law enforcement officer. And someday, that may come
home to roost at your door.


Oh sure! Where are all your phantom "biker buds" and the like?


Right now, shining up their bikes, getting ready for Spring.


What're you going to tell me now...you're a "made guy?"


not what I meant- and not worth joining- once you're in, you can never
get out

I've got some
"made guy" friends down in Lansdale maybe you'd like to meet someday.


anytime- you're forgetting who's the Italian family here- ask them
what they think about family



You can save yourself the aggravation. It'll perform very much like a
good quality consumer grade 3¾ IPS 4 track machine of the same era.


That's what I want- I have (4) Akai R2R machines that will play to 15
IPS, who wants to thread a reel to use them all the time. I'd rather
load a cassette.

Getting cassettes for that thing is a real bitch.


This one comes with cassettes already. Besides, that's what you said
about the decks- yet I found one in 10 minutes. Ebay is worldwide
now, not just USA. There are lots of tapes on Ebay all the time, 4
lots sold in the last month on Ebay USA alone, and many more available
overseas NOW. There's a lot on Ebay USA right now. The facts are
contrary to your statement.


Tape handling is superior to either of the "cartridge" formats, as is cassette.

Wow/flutter performance is only average, despite the appearance of
dual capstans. Any 7½ IPS machine from the same era using the same
format will clean this machine's clock.


no kidding, speed= fidelity, how much fidelity do you want ? If I
wanted 7.5 IPS, I'd use my R2R's. The Akai 1800 SD will record 8-
track carts at 7.5 IPS but requires external EQ ingenuity to make it
work. But as of now, that's a trade secret. This isn't my first
rodeo !

Many higher-end 10½" reel
machines were being offered by the likes of Technics, Akai, Pioneer,
Teac/Tascam all the way to ReVox at this time. Why would anyone
sersious about mag tape recording at home empty their wallets of the
same amount of cash for an EL-7, when any of the big RTRs of the era
were better all around.


You answered your own question- "BIG RTR'S"- the reels are too big and
clumsy, not to mention threading the tape. That's what cartridges
have over reels. Anyone with the money can just buy all of the decks
you mention tomorrow, if they wanted to. What's so hard about that ?


Bad investment...sorry!



Actually, an Elcaset is money in the bank- and will only appreciate
with time. Check the Euro prices on them, they are through the
roof.




  #6  
Old March 12th 07, 02:55 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
duty-honor-country
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Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Mar 11, 6:56 pm, DeserTBoB wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...pagename=STRK%...


Bad investment...sorry!



$460 USA was a smokin' deal on that deck- that deck in UK was a
bargain, and is complete with remote and manual

Here's another for RIGHT NOW for $849 Euro

http://www.audio-extasa.eu/product_i...b95d741ffa43ba

do the currency conversion on that- it's $1,113 USA funds

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

849.00 EUR = 1,113.82 USD
Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.31192 USD 1 USD = 0.762243 EUR

weren't you the one that said, how rare and expensive they are,
upthread here ? As I remember, is was something like "Good luck
finding one..."




  #7  
Old March 12th 07, 03:00 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
DeserTBoB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,541
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:56:18 -0700, DeserTBoB
wrote:

They were only in the audio stores for about six months or so around
1978, and withered quickly. snip


I looked in my manual file...I tried the Elcaset machine in November,
1978 and used it until I returned it to the rep in January, 1979. This
was before any of the big audio chains on the West Coast had ANY store
stock of them. Previous to this, if one wanted an Elcaset machine,
it'd have to be bought from Sony or one of a very few Sony dealers. I
remember Shelley's Audio had them, as did a couple of the other high
end stores in LA, around that time, but the biggies, like University
Stereo, Dow Radio, Federated and CBS' Pacific Stereo didn't carry
them...or much of anything else by Sony.

The Elcaset did get rolled out in late '76 in Japan, and, as usual
with the Japanese, they eagerly snapped up anything with the Sony logo
on it. "Sony no breakee" went the conventional logic of the Japanese,
when reality, of course, was a bit different. Just ask any broadcast
video tech who worked his fingers off trying to keep Sony tape
machines and cameras online! A friend of mine who was stationed in
Honolulu said that he saw them on Oahu for sale about six months
later, and I saw the first one offered in Federated's "high end room"
around spring of '79, never to be seen again. About that time, Audio
magazine did a write-up of the EL-7, as did Stereo Review. High
praise as a 3¾ IPS tape machine, but both write-ups pointed out the
format's flaws, as I'd already surmised. There wasn't an Elcaset
anywhere to be found in LA by late summer of '79, and Sony decided to
put their big push on Betamax.

Elcaset was a moderate seller in the UK, as well as a hit in Japan,
but was a spectacular flop everywhere else. As with a lot of Sony's
product line over the years, it was an idea in search of a market. I
do remember the Superscope rep stating that it was Sony's goal to
"overcome the clumsy handling of reel tapes with a new, high fidelity
format." All well and good...except that Philips was well on the way
to filling that market with a more desirable product, one that was
quickly reaching total market domination.
  #8  
Old March 12th 07, 08:13 AM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
DeserTBoB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,541
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On 11 Mar 2007 18:37:14 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote:

Oddly enough, Beta decks bring big bucks now too. snip


Yes, I know...I sold an SL-5200, the first Beta Hi-Fi model, for a
mint last year. Funny thing the "betaheads" don't understand is that
most non-Chinese made VHS-HQ decks will outperform them on low and
intermediate speeds now, due to improvements in the JVC/VHS format.
This isn't to say that the latest Chinese-made decks are any
good...they're cheaply thrown together trash. But, take any Superbeta
deck on Beta III speed up with new heads against a VHS-HQ machine
from, say, Panasonic or JVC with new heads, and the VHS machine will
win on raster noise and freedom from color burst problems.

GM is getting ready to buy Chrysler and Ford. When that happens, they
will become a huge mega-sized American corporation making cars,
approx. 3X the size of its nearest competitor, Toyota. snip


Toyota will pass GM this model year as the #1 world automaker.
Meanwhile, GM continues to commit the same blunders.

And if you
think about it, things were never better in this country for the
average working man, than in the 1946-70 era, when nearly all the cars
we drove were made here- along with our clothes, appliances, textiles,
shoes, and even kids' toys. We need to get back to that ASAP. It
will create more jobs, and high paying union jobs at that. Don't you
agree ? snip


110% on that.

Case in point: In the northern environs of the greater San Francisco
Bay area, across the Strait of Carquinez, the first large scale
cantilever highway bridge in the area was built in 1927 to carry US 40
across the water without the need for a ferry. In 1958, a near copy
of the same bridge was built next to it to convert US 40 to freeway
standards, anticipating the upgrade to Interstate standards passed in
1956. This artery became I-680, and the two bridges have been used
since then.

A seismic survey found that the 1927 span, which used built-up
(lattice) beams instead of the later rolled box beams of the 1958
version, was in danger of collapse in a severe earthquake. The span
had require extensive realignment after the 1987 Loma Prieta quake,
while the '58 span held together fairly well. CalTrans then sent out
bids for a new, modern suspension bridge to parallel the 1927 span,
allowing it to be used for southbound traffic while the old span was
deconstructed. Both spans were built by American Bridge Company, the
elder one using Bethlehem steel, the latter using Kaiser steel and
both using concrete from Henry Kaiser's Permanente cement plant.

NOT ONE US company returned a bid on the new replacement span....NOT
ONE. American Bridge? Gone. Chicago Steel Products? Gone. Every
one major steel fabricator in the country? Gone. Who won the bid?
Cleveland Erectors, a BRITISH firm. On top of that, all the major
materials that make up the new bridge DO NOT COME from the US. The
precast towers and roadbed sections come from overseas. NO US
manufacturers even BOTHERED to bid. This came quickly to light during
construction, when, one morning, the Union Jack and the Aussie flag
were flying on top of one of the recently erected towers. Public
opinion went awry instantly, and a US flag was then placed between
them. Not enough, so the Union Jack and Aussie flags were removed.
But the problem remained after the flags had fallen. The ONLY US
product in the assembly of the bridge is US union labor...that's it.

Rick Waggoner isn't saying a word about the Chrysler buy, and neither
is "Dr. Z," meaning that they're talking for certain. But, as the
Toyota chairman was quoted in today's LA Times Business section,
Toyota passed on Chrysler, even though, being flush with cash from US
buyers, they could afford to buy it for cash. Reason? "No synergy."
There's "synergy" in the marriage of two losers??? What I think
attracted the idiots in the Henry Ford (a joke in itself) Renaissance
Center HQ of GM was that Chrysler had been more successful in the US
market than had GM of late. Not that this matters...Chrysler group is
still stuck with hoards of big pickups and midsize SUVs that no one
wants. So what do they do??? They start production on a BIG SUV, the
Aspen! How stupid is THAT?

Meanwhile, the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid worth 150 MPG in city
service, can't be produced for at least 10 years, because GM forgot to
perfect the battery technology that they were supposed to get from the
aborted EV-1 project. Meanwhile, Toyota will have a similar plug-in
available in the US by 2009. Loser? GM...again. Once Toyota runs
around GM as the #1 automaker some time this spring, the idiots on
Wall Street will run for cover and start dumping bonds and warrants,
and the common stock price will head for Ford's territory in the
single digits. Ford, meanwhile, had a little success with their
Fusion intro, but was cancelled out by the dismal failuire of the 500,
which is now rebadged as yet another Taurus. Looks like they're not
making very good decisions, either. Toyota is, and has been. The
shame here is that the 500 is really not a bad car...it's just that
Toyota's cars are PERCEIVED by the American public as being better,
due to their own stupidity. They simply do not trust the Big 3
anymore, and gladly send their dollars to Tokyo...at our own national
peril. Meanwhile, Ford fritters away capital it doesn't have with the
Ford Edge/Lincoln whateveritis "crossover" SUV...which no one seems to
think is worth a crap, and isn't selling. Rather than "get real" with
their "green car" program, what do you see in their advertising? The
new Lincolns, which look alarmingly like '48 Chryslers.

And there's one groups of villains in all this mess....the stupidity
of American corporate management and their Wall Street "get rich
quick" pals...period.

you need to pick the stick out of your own eye, before you go levering
the log from someone else's- have you read your posting history ?
You're the one that just posted pictures of women from someone's
family on this group, that you dug up on the net. That's stalking in
the eyes of any law enforcement officer. And someday, that may come
home to roost at your door. snip


Publicly available images, Noodles. Sorry...doesn't wash. But yes,
you DO look amazingly like Pauly Walnuts!

not what I meant- and not worth joining- once you're in, you can never
get out snip


Sort of like being stuck in Bumler, eh??

You can save yourself the aggravation. It'll perform very much like a
good quality consumer grade 3¾ IPS 4 track machine of the same era.


That's what I want- I have (4) Akai R2R machines that will play to 15
IPS, who wants to thread a reel to use them all the time. I'd rather
load a cassette. snip


If that's your only requirement, there are far more standard ways to
go to get the same equivalent performance. The Elcaset is a rara
avis, at the very least.

Getting cassettes for that thing is a real bitch.


This one comes with cassettes already. Besides, that's what you said
about the decks- yet I found one in 10 minutes. Ebay is worldwide
now, not just USA. There are lots of tapes on Ebay all the time, 4
lots sold in the last month on Ebay USA alone, and many more available
overseas NOW. There's a lot on Ebay USA right now. The facts are
contrary to your statement. snip


Well, have fun with your Elcaset, then.


Tape handling is superior to either of the "cartridge" formats, as is cassette.

Wow/flutter performance is only average, despite the appearance of
dual capstans. Any 7½ IPS machine from the same era using the same
format will clean this machine's clock.


no kidding, speed= fidelitysnip


Not always. Past 30 IPS, speed DETRACTS from audio frequency response
flatness in the bottom end. It's a function of head geometry versus
tape speed.

The Akai 1800 SD will record 8-
track carts at 7.5 IPS but requires external EQ ingenuity to make it
work. But as of now, that's a trade secret.snip


That's no "trade secret," stunod. You simply have to change the EQ
turnover points to match 7½ IPS NAB equalization, that's all there is
to it. Usually all that takes is change of two capacitors in most
consumer grade machines....duhhhhhh.

You're really funny when you think you've found out some startling
discovery, only to find that you've, in effect, tried to reinvent the
wheel!

Many higher-end 10½" reel
machines were being offered by the likes of Technics, Akai, Pioneer,
Teac/Tascam all the way to ReVox at this time. Why would anyone
sersious about mag tape recording at home empty their wallets of the
same amount of cash for an EL-7, when any of the big RTRs of the era
were better all around.


You answered your own question- "BIG RTR'S"- the reels are too big and
clumsy, not to mention threading the tape. That's what cartridges
have over reels. Anyone with the money can just buy all of the decks
you mention tomorrow, if they wanted to. What's so hard about that ?


Bad investment...sorry!



Actually, an Elcaset is money in the bank- and will only appreciate
with time. Check the Euro prices on them, they are through the
roof. snip


Only when some dork like you does a "BIN" at $500 PLUS $100 in
shipping!

Bona fortuna, Noodles! Elcasets were yet another failed Sony
marketing scheme that fell on its ass...a product "looking" for a
market. As a conversation piece? Fine. Maybe you can even play it
now and then and get better audio than you currently get from 8
tracks. But what's hard about threading a reel of tape??? Also,
let's see you find an alignment cassette for THAT thing! Of course, I
have a number of 3¾ IPS Ampex alignment tapes that could do the trick,
but...that's me. Not you.
  #9  
Old March 12th 07, 01:12 PM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
duty-honor-country
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Mar 11, 9:00 pm, DeserTBoB wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:56:18 -0700, DeserTBoB
wrote:

They were only in the audio stores for about six months or so around
1978, and withered quickly. snip


I looked in my manual file...I tried the Elcaset machine in November,
1978 and used it until I returned it to the rep in January, 1979. This
was before any of the big audio chains on the West Coast had ANY store
stock of them. Previous to this, if one wanted an Elcaset machine,
it'd have to be bought from Sony or one of a very few Sony dealers. I
remember Shelley's Audio had them, as did a couple of the other high
end stores in LA, around that time, but the biggies, like University
Stereo, Dow Radio, Federated and CBS' Pacific Stereo didn't carry
them...or much of anything else by Sony.

The Elcaset did get rolled out in late '76 in Japan, and, as usual
with the Japanese, they eagerly snapped up anything with the Sony logo
on it. "Sony no breakee" went the conventional logic of the Japanese,
when reality, of course, was a bit different. Just ask any broadcast
video tech who worked his fingers off trying to keep Sony tape
machines and cameras online! A friend of mine who was stationed in
Honolulu said that he saw them on Oahu for sale about six months
later, and I saw the first one offered in Federated's "high end room"
around spring of '79, never to be seen again. About that time, Audio
magazine did a write-up of the EL-7, as did Stereo Review. High
praise as a 3¾ IPS tape machine, but both write-ups pointed out the
format's flaws, as I'd already surmised. There wasn't an Elcaset
anywhere to be found in LA by late summer of '79, and Sony decided to
put their big push on Betamax.

Elcaset was a moderate seller in the UK, as well as a hit in Japan,
but was a spectacular flop everywhere else. As with a lot of Sony's
product line over the years, it was an idea in search of a market. I
do remember the Superscope rep stating that it was Sony's goal to
"overcome the clumsy handling of reel tapes with a new, high fidelity
format." All well and good...except that Philips was well on the way
to filling that market with a more desirable product, one that was
quickly reaching total market domination.



Yet in retrospect, the Elcaset has the obvious technical edge. Wider
tape + higher speed = improved fidelity over the Philips.

The Philips cassettes always sounded like a POS to me- no matter what
they were played on- the sound is blurred and they are high end
response challenged. The high-end response on a Philips sounds faked.

A dead format with more potential than either, is the 1950's RCA
cassette, which the Philips was based on. The RCA machines could be
adjusted to 1-7/8 or 3.75 IPS

which brings up the issue, there's nothing really new, just old ideas,
rehashed.

See the cassette formats compared here, the RCA cassette of the 1950's
was even larger than the Elcaset:

http://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~cochi...tic-media.html

The RCA cartridge was large, 7 _ inches by 5 inches by _-inch thick
using _-inch tape at a selectable rate of 3.75 ips or 1 7/8 ips for
total recording times of 30 or 60 minutes respectively. The tape had
five openings along the bottom edge, two for capstans and three for
heads. The heads could be oriented differently by recorder type. On
some machines, recorded tracks could be selected with a switch labeled
"A" or "B", with the "A" side being stereo (or dual mono) tracks one
and three, and "B" occupying tracks two and four. In essence, this was
a four-track machine with all the tracks playing in the same
direction. The tape was configured in such a way that it was also
possible to record on each side of the tape with two tracks in each
direction. Oddly, the player had no way to fast-forward the tape. It
required flipping the tape over and rewinding it. The cartridge had a
notch in the back of the case that held a spring-loaded brake. When
the cartridge was not in the player, the brake kept the tape from
unwinding from the reel. This feature was unique to the RCA format.
Another interesting feature incorporated into the design was the use
of flangeless reels for spooling the tape. The sides of the case
served to keep the tape aligned. Despite being configured for home
playback and recording, the RCA cartridge machines were not widely
popular. The machines were too expensive for average consumers and
contained built-in amplifiers and speakers that serious audiophiles
did not want .



  #10  
Old March 12th 07, 01:43 PM posted to alt.collecting.8-track-tapes
duty-honor-country
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Elcaset- worth a try

On Mar 12, 2:13 am, DeserTBoB wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 18:37:14 -0700, "duty-honor-country"

wrote:
Oddly enough, Beta decks bring big bucks now too. snip


Yes, I know...I sold an SL-5200, the first Beta Hi-Fi model, for a
mint last year.


I sold a Sony Beta last year. Well worth picking up if the price is
right, they go for much more than the avg. 8-track deck, that's for
sure.

Rick Waggoner isn't saying a word about the Chrysler buy, and neither
is "Dr. Z," meaning that they're talking for certain. But, as the
Toyota chairman was quoted in today's LA Times Business section,
Toyota passed on Chrysler, even though, being flush with cash from US
buyers, they could afford to buy it for cash. Reason? "No synergy."
There's "synergy" in the marriage of two losers??? What I think
attracted the idiots in the Henry Ford (a joke in itself) Renaissance
Center HQ of GM was that Chrysler had been more successful in the US
market than had GM of late. Not that this matters...Chrysler group is
still stuck with hoards of big pickups and midsize SUVs that no one
wants. So what do they do??? They start production on a BIG SUV, the
Aspen! How stupid is THAT?


Simply a response to the higher gas prices- we've all seen this before
in the 1970's- gas goes up, people run from their big cars. Doesn't
mean what they're running to is "better"- this will all change soon,
because there are now NINE coal-to-oil synthetic plants being built in
the USA right now, that will be up and running in about a year, and
will produce 3 billion barrels of oil per year. Just like the Germans
did in WWII. We also have a million barrels a day coming from
Alberta, Canada from the oil sand plants. When the syn plants start
pumping it out, the supply will grow, price will fall, and people will
want that that new Hemi V-8 Challenger.


Meanwhile, the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid worth 150 MPG in city
service, can't be produced for at least 10 years, because GM forgot to
perfect the battery technology that they were supposed to get from the
aborted EV-1 project. Meanwhile, Toyota will have a similar plug-in
available in the US by 2009. Loser? GM...again.


Try driving an electric car in the Rockies states, or back here in the
hilly northeast- not going to fly- they cost 2X a gas car, with less
power. Electric is a loser.

Once Toyota runs
around GM as the #1 automaker some time this spring, the idiots on
Wall Street will run for cover and start dumping bonds and warrants,
and the common stock price will head for Ford's territory in the
single digits. Ford, meanwhile, had a little success with their
Fusion intro, but was cancelled out by the dismal failuire of the 500,
which is now rebadged as yet another Taurus. Looks like they're not
making very good decisions, either. Toyota is, and has been.


Toyota is the biggest POS ever to roll on 4-wheels. Just try working
on one.


The
shame here is that the 500 is really not a bad car...it's just that
Toyota's cars are PERCEIVED by the American public as being better,
due to their own stupidity. They simply do not trust the Big 3
anymore, and gladly send their dollars to Tokyo...at our own national
peril.


You can count yourself amongst them. Instead of buying a Honda
because it's "cheaper", but a GM, Ford, Chrysler, hell buy an old AMC-
just don't buy foreign. Soon it will be a change or die decision.

Publicly available images, Noodles. Sorry...doesn't wash. But yes,
you DO look amazingly like Pauly Walnuts!



I'm talking about what it does to your reputation, and how it appears
to the average law enforcement officer. It goes far to show the
nature of your character.

Sort of like being stuck in Bumler, eh??



BML is a mighty bit better than Lancaster, CA.

If that's your only requirement, there are far more standard ways to
go to get the same equivalent performance. The Elcaset is a rara
avis, at the very least.


Resale value means everything.


Well, have fun with your Elcaset, then.



Everyone who owns them, does.



Not always. Past 30 IPS, speed DETRACTS from audio frequency response
flatness in the bottom end. It's a function of head geometry versus
tape speed.


Well no kidding- because no one runs a reel past 30 IPS anyway.
You'd need a reel of tape the size of a powerline reel.


The Akai 1800 SD will record 8-
track carts at 7.5 IPS but requires external EQ ingenuity to make it
work. But as of now, that's a trade secret.snip


That's no "trade secret," stunod. You simply have to change the EQ
turnover points to match 7½ IPS NAB equalization, that's all there is
to it. Usually all that takes is change of two capacitors in most
consumer grade machines....duhhhhhh.



Why bother- run the line outs through a multi-band external EQ and
adjust using a spectrum analyzer. It's not a matter of how to do it,
it's who thought of the idea first. In this case, that's me.


You're really funny when you think you've found out some startling
discovery, only to find that you've, in effect, tried to reinvent the
wheel!


That's called a "hobby". Who's trying to reinvent anything ? But
now that you mention it, there isn't a cartridge analog tape format
that runs at 7.5 IPS that was ever mentioned on the net- until I
mentioned the Akai 1800 SD experiment.

Stick around, I'll learn ya...

Bad investment...sorry!


Actually, an Elcaset is money in the bank- and will only appreciate
with time. Check the Euro prices on them, they are through the
roof. snip


Only when some dork like you does a "BIN" at $500 PLUS $100 in
shipping!


First it was I can't afford it and won't find one and "good luck"
because they go for so much, now it's this ? Looks like the fox can't
reach the grapes again....and the little green man is running rampant.


Bona fortuna, Noodles! Elcasets were yet another failed Sony
marketing scheme that fell on its ass...a product "looking" for a
market. As a conversation piece? Fine. Maybe you can even play it
now and then and get better audio than you currently get from 8
tracks. But what's hard about threading a reel of tape??? Also,
let's see you find an alignment cassette for THAT thing! Of course, I
have a number of 3¾ IPS Ampex alignment tapes that could do the trick,
but...that's me. Not you.


So failed, they bring $1100 US in Europe, here's the response from the
other EL-7 deck:

you can switch "currencies" in the left navigation bar to "US-Dollars"
all the prices will appear in USD. The EL 7 has already been sold, the
EL 5 is still available. The shipping cost to PA is 82 Euro, approx 100
USD for this unit.
We accept paypal.
Regards


I like blue chip investments.

Jealousy will get you nowhere.. In the course of this ONE POST,
you've gone from sensible response to rabid ravings. Say it, don't
spray it.

 




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