Seeburg 100 pinbank/contact block problem

Hi Group,
I need some advice regarding a pinbank/contact block problem. The
pinbank has been totally disassembled and rebuilt, and all 100
levers/pins are moved when selected. The "write-in" part is working
fine. Here's the problem.
As the contact block moves along the pinbank with the mechanism, it
will not stop (readout) for all E and F selections on the A-side, but
it does stop for selections on the B-side. If I lift up the contact
block from the underside to exert a little more pressure (from the
contact block to the selector levers/pins of the pinbank), it will trip
to stop and play; but ONLY when I am lifting the contact block with my
hand. This tells me that it is reading out okay (electrically), but
that there is a mechanical/alignment problem somehow.
I'm aware of the lateral, or side-to-side adjustment for the contact
block, to center the grounding pins of the block to the levers/pins of
the pinbank. I am not of any adjustment to raise the contact block
higher in the grooves of the pinbank. I'm thinking of trying a
different contact block, but I'm not sure that will correct the
problem. The only other alternative I can think of is to somehow
re-shape the track of the pinbank's guide rails in that small section
where the block is not contacting the E and F pins. I fear doing this,
because I might create a bind in that section of the pinbank between
the contact block and the pinbank.
Does anyone know of something else that coulb be causing this problem.
Whatever the part of the mechanism is that connects the contact block
to the rest of the mechanism, can this be out of adjustment somehow,
and be bent slightly so that there is a bit more pressure from the
block to the selector pins in the pinbank? Or will this throw the rest
of the working selections out of whack if I try to correct it this way.
The pinbank looks to be alright when I look down the guide rails that
the contact block slides back and forth in. Any help or suggestions
will be appreciated. Thanks, Rob

It's possible the U-shaped channel in which the contact block assembly rides
may be warped or bent in the area where the "missing" selections are located.
You'll need to remove the selector assembly (pinbank) from the magazine and
use a straight edge and/or depth gauge to check the height of the
channel in that area, and the clearance of the contact block in that area.

Doing so will of course require that you remove the contact block from the
carriage; easy on the R & J where they have plug-on connectors, harder on the
other models.

Also verify that the selector levers in the problem area are the same height
as the ones nearby. It may be possible that the sub-assembly of twenty levers
and coils may be skewed from its neighbors, which means the levers might be
slightly lower. Check to see if perhaps the screws that hold that
sub-assembly to the U-shaped channel are loose, or if the screws that mount
the selector assembly cover to the pair of studs on each sub-assembly are
missing or mis-aligned in some way.

There is no design requirement for any upward force on the contact block
assembly; the tolerances of U-channel and block legs should be such that the
block has minimal up and down play. Because of this it is unlikely that you
could kludge up any way to force the contact block upward. In fact, if you
did, it's possible you'll introduce other problems, as the carriage must be
free enough to move just a bit beyond the contact point of selector lever and
contact block read-out contact.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article .com,
" wrote:
Hi Group,
I need some advice regarding a pinbank/contact block problem. The
pinbank has been totally disassembled and rebuilt, and all 100
levers/pins are moved when selected. The "write-in" part is working
fine. Here's the problem.
As the contact block moves along the pinbank with the mechanism, it
will not stop (readout) for all E and F selections on the A-side, but
it does stop for selections on the B-side. If I lift up the contact
block from the underside to exert a little more pressure (from the
contact block to the selector levers/pins of the pinbank), it will trip
to stop and play; but ONLY when I am lifting the contact block with my
hand. This tells me that it is reading out okay (electrically), but
that there is a mechanical/alignment problem somehow.
I'm aware of the lateral, or side-to-side adjustment for the contact
block, to center the grounding pins of the block to the levers/pins of
the pinbank. I am not of any adjustment to raise the contact block
higher in the grooves of the pinbank. I'm thinking of trying a
different contact block, but I'm not sure that will correct the
problem. The only other alternative I can think of is to somehow
re-shape the track of the pinbank's guide rails in that small section
where the block is not contacting the E and F pins. I fear doing this,
because I might create a bind in that section of the pinbank between
the contact block and the pinbank.
Does anyone know of something else that coulb be causing this problem.
Whatever the part of the mechanism is that connects the contact block
to the rest of the mechanism, can this be out of adjustment somehow,
and be bent slightly so that there is a bit more pressure from the
block to the selector pins in the pinbank? Or will this throw the rest
of the working selections out of whack if I try to correct it this way.
The pinbank looks to be alright when I look down the guide rails that
the contact block slides back and forth in. Any help or suggestions
will be appreciated. Thanks, Rob

Thanks so much, Tony, for your quick reply. I will do what you said,
and let you know what I find. I know that at one time, the U-shaped
channel was indeed bent, but was straightened out (quite miraculously,
I might add) by one of my best jukebox friends. I will try the depth
guage with the help of my neighbor (who has one). I sort of suspect
that merely trying a different contact block would not solve this
problem, but didn't really want to exchange the pinbank with one from a
similar model (but different year). Thanks again, Tony. Rob
Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
It's possible the U-shaped channel in which the contact block assembly rides
may be warped or bent in the area where the "missing" selections are located.
You'll need to remove the selector assembly (pinbank) from the magazine and
use a straight edge and/or depth gauge to check the height of the
channel in that area, and the clearance of the contact block in that area.

Doing so will of course require that you remove the contact block from the
carriage; easy on the R & J where they have plug-on connectors, harder on the
other models.

Also verify that the selector levers in the problem area are the same height
as the ones nearby. It may be possible that the sub-assembly of twenty levers
and coils may be skewed from its neighbors, which means the levers might be
slightly lower. Check to see if perhaps the screws that hold that
sub-assembly to the U-shaped channel are loose, or if the screws that mount
the selector assembly cover to the pair of studs on each sub-assembly are
missing or mis-aligned in some way.

There is no design requirement for any upward force on the contact block
assembly; the tolerances of U-channel and block legs should be such that the
block has minimal up and down play. Because of this it is unlikely that you
could kludge up any way to force the contact block upward. In fact, if you
did, it's possible you'll introduce other problems, as the carriage must be
free enough to move just a bit beyond the contact point of selector lever and
contact block read-out contact.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article .com,
" wrote:
Hi Group,
I need some advice regarding a pinbank/contact block problem. The
pinbank has been totally disassembled and rebuilt, and all 100
levers/pins are moved when selected. The "write-in" part is working
fine. Here's the problem.
As the contact block moves along the pinbank with the mechanism, it
will not stop (readout) for all E and F selections on the A-side, but
it does stop for selections on the B-side. If I lift up the contact
block from the underside to exert a little more pressure (from the
contact block to the selector levers/pins of the pinbank), it will trip
to stop and play; but ONLY when I am lifting the contact block with my
hand. This tells me that it is reading out okay (electrically), but
that there is a mechanical/alignment problem somehow.
I'm aware of the lateral, or side-to-side adjustment for the contact
block, to center the grounding pins of the block to the levers/pins of
the pinbank. I am not of any adjustment to raise the contact block
higher in the grooves of the pinbank. I'm thinking of trying a
different contact block, but I'm not sure that will correct the
problem. The only other alternative I can think of is to somehow
re-shape the track of the pinbank's guide rails in that small section
where the block is not contacting the E and F pins. I fear doing this,
because I might create a bind in that section of the pinbank between
the contact block and the pinbank.
Does anyone know of something else that coulb be causing this problem.
Whatever the part of the mechanism is that connects the contact block
to the rest of the mechanism, can this be out of adjustment somehow,
and be bent slightly so that there is a bit more pressure from the
block to the selector pins in the pinbank? Or will this throw the rest
of the working selections out of whack if I try to correct it this way.
The pinbank looks to be alright when I look down the guide rails that
the contact block slides back and forth in. Any help or suggestions
will be appreciated. Thanks, Rob

Rob, I have some parted-out pin banks kicking around; I could send you a
U-channel if that would help. You have to take out about a zillion screws
(well, maybe just a few dozen), but it's not that hard to swap.

Tony

In article .com,
" wrote:
Thanks so much, Tony, for your quick reply. I will do what you said,
and let you know what I find. I know that at one time, the U-shaped
channel was indeed bent, but was straightened out (quite miraculously,
I might add) by one of my best jukebox friends. I will try the depth
guage with the help of my neighbor (who has one). I sort of suspect
that merely trying a different contact block would not solve this
problem, but didn't really want to exchange the pinbank with one from a
similar model (but different year). Thanks again, Tony. Rob

Hi Tony,
That sounds like an offer I can't refuse! Send me an e-mail off-group,
and we'll work out the details. Perhaps you could include a parts
pinbank along with the U-channel, as I've never changed a bad coil
yet......I could use the experience (even though I've never figured out
how to get the coils out as of yet).
I'm going out of town for the day tomorrow, but I'll e-mail you Friday
with details and particulars. Thanks again, Tony. Rob
Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
Rob, I have some parted-out pin banks kicking around; I could send you a
U-channel if that would help. You have to take out about a zillion screws
(well, maybe just a few dozen), but it's not that hard to swap.

Tony

In article .com,
" wrote:
Thanks so much, Tony, for your quick reply. I will do what you said,
and let you know what I find. I know that at one time, the U-shaped
channel was indeed bent, but was straightened out (quite miraculously,
I might add) by one of my best jukebox friends. I will try the depth
guage with the help of my neighbor (who has one). I sort of suspect
that merely trying a different contact block would not solve this
problem, but didn't really want to exchange the pinbank with one from a
similar model (but different year). Thanks again, Tony. Rob