Another "what would you do?"

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:06:48 -0500, "Bill Krummel"
wrote:

I emailed the seller on the day of receipt;

After two days and no response, I emailed again;

Is the tone of my emails requesting to return a fair and proper tone?

Two or three whole days have elapsed and you have not received a
reply? Obviously, you are dealing with a person that has a life
outside of eBay and takes a few days off here and there. He may be
off at a show, on a mini-vacation, or even saying to-hell-with-it for
a couple of days and relaxing in a hammock in his back yard.

You remind me of the guy that sits behind me and honks his horn the
instant the light turns green. My inclination is to deliberately wait
for a few more moments and then pull away from the light with
exaggerated slowness.

I have never honked at the guy in front of me the instant a light turns
green. I have honked a very short blast after four or five seconds,
probably 2 or 3 times in 38 years of driving.

I don't think my post or my questions indicated I was snapping my fingers
and demanding instantaneous response. I think I was asking if my
expectations were too high to want to return this coin, should the
distraction have been noted in the auction description, and did the tone of
my email sound civil. You give some justification for my concerns over the
tone of my email, considering your reaction to my post.

Oh, btw, there have been a few times the guy behind me gave a short blast of
the horn. Woke me up and I got a move on. Sometimes, a short horn blast
helps. I remember driving a piece of junk when I was a teenager and on a
couple of occasions I didn't even have a working horn. In those instances,
waiting at a light for the driver ahead of me to move, I would wait
patiently for a few seconds then stick my head out the window and go, "honk!
honk!". Never "HONK! HONK!" always just "honk! honk!". I haven't done
that since I have gotten older. I guess I was a lot hornier when I was
young. I remember once, early on in my life, that I neither honked my horn
nor shot my mouth off. We sat through the entire green and we did the red
light again. One time, at band camp, ....oh never mind.... I think that
had to do with a clarinet. Is a clarinet a horn?



Any second contact in less than a week is very likely to get the other
person's back up.

My biggest concern at the time I emailed the second time was whether my
first email had even been received. As I understand it, email sometimes
gets lost, just like snail mail. The seller responded late tonight
(Saturday night) and said I could return the coin and he would refund my
postage as well. Hopefully, I won't have to put him through any more
trouble, possibly I have found someone who wants the coin. In any event, I
will leave the seller a positive fb. Bill

"Bill Krummel" wrote in message
...

"Doggo" wrote in message
...

"Bill Krummel" wrote in message
...
Won this auction

http://tinyurl.com/qbmf

I paid using Paypal and received the coin two days ago, on the 9th,
which
is
only 3 days after auction end. Seller left positive fb on the 7th,
"Fast
communication & payment...AAA+++ eBay eBuyer! Thanks!"

When I received the coin, I was disappointed in the reverse, because
of
a
pinhead sized black carbon spot, the first thing my eyes are drawn to
when I
look at the reverse. My quick image of the coin;

http://tinyurl.com/qkfc


I emailed the seller on the day of receipt;

"Xxx, I received the 1934 Texas, NGC MS64, today and was
disappointed
to
see
the black carbon spot on the reverse, about pin head sized. I truly
believe
that feature should have been mentioned in the auction description
(the
auction had no reverse image, as I noticed in several other of your
auctions
that I bid on). I would like to return the coin, and would like to
hear
from you before I mail it. Thanks, Bill Krummel at
"

After two days and no response, I emailed again;

"Hi. I won the eBay auction #3051158967, 1934 Texas NGC MS-64. I
have
paid, you shipped, and I received the coin on the 9th. On the 9th, I
emailed you to say I was not pleased with the black carbon spot on
the
reverse of the coin and would like to take advantage of your return
policy.
You have not yet replied, so you may have not received the email.
The
auction did not show an image of the reverse, and the verbal
description
said, "There is some very slight toning on both sides of the coin.",
which I
think did not describe the visual impact of the black carbon spot. I
would
like to return the coin. Thanks, Bill Krummel at
"

There has not been ample time since this second email to know whether
I
will
have a response or not.

I feel I share some liability because I bid on an auction without a
reverse
image. But, all of the auctions of this seller that I had viewed
that
day
had the same format, an obverse image and a brief verbal description
of
the
other side.

Considering everything - a good price, fast delivery, quick fb - am
I
making too big a deal over a carbon spot?

Should the carbon spot at least been mentioned in the description? I
think
so, but do you?

Is the tone of my emails requesting to return a fair and proper tone?
They
sound fair to my ears but this is email and I don't know if negative
inflections can be interpretted into the words.

At this point, what would you do? I always have the option of
selling
the
coin and taking a small loss, which doesn't really concern me too
much,
that
has happened many times before. It is not a coin I will want to
keep.
Bill

A couple of months ago you posted how a buyer had contacted you about
the
condition of three coins in a set you were auctioning off. You were
put
off that the buyer would think of asking such questions


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...7b177&rnum=111
Now you see why some people ask such questions? If you had concerns
about
the reverse, maybe you should have asked before you bought.

Well, I may be wrong, but I think that is a slight mischaracterization of
my
concern a few months ago. My post then was really trying to address (1)
the
nature of imperfections, and how far should a seller go to point out any
imperfection and (2) the concern that the questions emailed me might
foretell of a potential winner who would take advantage of my liberal
return
policy if he examined the coins under xx magnification and determined
they
were not PF70s and he had not made a steal. I have never had that type
of
problem but had heard of stories where people buy, hoping for the super
high
grade at a lower grade price, then ask for a return when their
expectations
are not met, even when the auction description says nothing to give the
buyer that type of expectation. I noted in that post I had visually
inspected the set and did not see any problems, which I had already noted
in
my auction description. Iows, I thought that my description was very
adequate as it was. Anyway, there were no problems with the buyer of
that
set.

And, no, frankly, with this current auction example, I did not have any
concerns about the reverse. But that is because I thought I knew what
the
reverse looked like, from the verbal description. The reverse was
described
in the verbal description and I accepted the description as it was. Had
that been the seller's only auction that did not show both sides, I
probably
would have been leery and passed on the auction, but all of that seller's
auctions that I viewed followed the same format - image of one side only
and
a verbal description of the reverse.

This particular auction, the 1934 Texas, really is just another example
for
the purpose of my first post a couple of months ago. How far should this
seller have been expected to go? In my auction a few months ago, or any
auction, I would mention hazing, spots visible to the naked eye, and any
other imperfection that I would consider a potential distraction. But, I
may not mention, perhaps not see, one pin prick sized spot somewhere on a
coin. I may consider it insignificant. Had I been selling the 34 Texas,
I
would certainly have mentioned the black carbon spot in my verbal, as
well
as have an image showing it. Evidently, this seller did not feel it
merited
mentioning. Thus, the difference of opinion between he and I, and the
question, "how far should a seller go?" If the spot had been much
smaller, or on the rim, I may have felt the description was fair and
accurate. Today, I am asking if others feel this spot should have been
mentioned in the seller's description.

One more example, then I'll shut up, since this is really not a serious
problem within our hobby. When I first sold coins, I did it at Coin
Universe, about six years ago. I listed a WL half in a PCGS 65 holder,
with a minimum bid requirement. The auction ended without a bid and I
received an offer, via email, for the coin at less than my minimum. I
took
the offer and sent the coin off. The buyer emailed saying he had
received
the coin and was not satisfied, that the coin had a milky haze on it and
it
would not fit in his collection. I emailed back that I had never seen a
milky haze, but he could return the coin for a refund and if I concurred
with him upon viewing the coin again, I would refund all postage as well.
When I received the coin back, I found out that if you looked closely
enough, there was indeed a faint milky haze on the obverse field, to the
right of Liberty, just not noticeable with casual looks. I refunded all
postage and appreciated the guy for being so particular about his coins.

Soooo. What should be included in a description? The black carbon spot
on
my 34 Texas? Anything that can be seen with the naked eye? Anything
that
can be seen under 5X? 16X? Dondi, in his response in this thread, says
I
worry too much. When I sell, I do worry a lot.

Well, I just looked back at this response. Someone, several years ago,
hinted that I was verbose, or windy, or some such term. Maybe they were
right. I'll quit now. Bill


Believe it or not, when a response (such as yours) is thought out and
written well, it does not come off as long winded (at least to me). I use
this NG as a learning tool, so I appreciate a post with substance.

I brought up the post I did because you wrote a description, and the buyer
apparently needed more info to make his decision. To me it seemed that you
thought your description should have been sufficient, and was worried that
the buyer was lookin' to cherry pick, so you were put off by the email. I
would think a seller would rather deal with an email looking for more info,
than have to do a return because the buyer didn't bother to ask a question.

When I'm considering an auction, I always email the seller if I need more
info. That way I'm not tying his inventory up or wasting my time on
something that I may not want.

Regards,
Ed