Newbie Questions: Scratchiness and Dry Pen

I just got a new Pelikan M800. This being my first fountain pen I
have a few questions:

1. I see a lot of talk about some pens being 'scratchy' but how do
you define that? This pen does not seem to write as smooth as my
roller ball, but it does not catch on the paper either. Should it
feel like I am writing on glass or should I be able to feel the
texture of the paper when I write? Also, it is a fine tip if that
matters.

2. How long should I be able to leave the cap off and have it 'start'
right away? I have discovered that if I am in a meeting taking notes
and I don't write anything for about 5 minutes, the pen wont start
writing as soon a I put it to the paper. Is that normal? I am using
Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink in the pen.

Thank you,

Tony

Tony Fischer wrote:
I just got a new Pelikan M800. This being my first fountain pen I
have a few questions:

1. I see a lot of talk about some pens being 'scratchy' but how do
you define that? This pen does not seem to write as smooth as my
roller ball, but it does not catch on the paper either. Should it
feel like I am writing on glass or should I be able to feel the
texture of the paper when I write? Also, it is a fine tip if that
matters.


Taste varies, and so does paper. I used to like nibs that glide
like butter on glass, but now I prefer nibs that let me feel the
contact of nib with paper. I first realised this with a nib from
John Mottishaw, and then noticed that some Sheaffer Triumph nibs
from the '40s have the same feel. It is different from
scratchiness, as it is a steady feel of slight friction. Fine
nibs are less likely to be totally smooth than broader nibs, and
the wetter the flow of ink, the smoother the feel. Fine nibs are
also more sensitive to the texture of the paper.

2. How long should I be able to leave the cap off and have it 'start'
right away? I have discovered that if I am in a meeting taking notes
and I don't write anything for about 5 minutes, the pen wont start
writing as soon a I put it to the paper. Is that normal? I am using
Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink in the pen.

5 minutes is quite a long time, and it would be normally
considered prudent to recap a pen, at least loosely, if you
aren't going to write again soon. Pens vary quite a lot in their
tendency to dry up when uncapped. I'm not sure what is normal for
an 800, as I don't have one, but smaller Pelikans would often do
better than that, though I wouldn't rely on it myself.

You might like to try another ink -- Aurora black is highly
regarded, and flows very freely, and it might (or might not)
change the behaviour of your pen.

Enjoy

"Tony Fischer" wrote in message
om...
I just got a new Pelikan M800. This being my first fountain pen I
have a few questions:

1. Should it
feel like I am writing on glass or should I be able to feel the
texture of the paper when I write? Also, it is a fine tip if that
matters.

this can be a matter of personal taste. I like very smooth nibs for the
most part, though I like a rather sharp stub vs. the buttery smooth stubs
most often seen. But a fine or EF nib may feel scratchier than a medium or
broader nib. Still, it's not that difficult to find a very smooth Fine or
EF nib. some find the "writing on glass" feeling too smooth - like bald
tires on pavement - not enough traction. What it comes down to, IMO, is if
you are not enjoying the feel of the nib, than it isn't right for you. Then
you have to determine why. Are the tines misaligned? Is the tipping rough
and in need of smoothing, or are you just not suited to a fine nib because
of ballpoint or rollerball habits? (pressing too hard) The first two can be
easily remedied by a repair person. Some of us eventually learn to do these
things ourselves for the most part. I've smoothed some 14k nibs as well as
many steel nibs. If this is a new Pelikan (as in, purchased retail) you can
contact the Pelikan distributor (don't know if you're US - if so, that's
Chartpak) and get a nib exchange. Some sellers will let you exchange
in-shop and some on-line retailers will dip test a nib for you to check for
alignment or other problems. in this situation, my first choice would be to
contact the either the seller if I know their reputation or Chartpak and ask
about a replacement fine nib that is smooth.

Can't really answer #2 as I don't know what is commonly accepted on this
one. If I'm going to put my pen down for more than 2 or 3 minutes, I always
cap it or at least lightly cap it.

(Tony Fischer) writes:

I just got a new Pelikan M800. This being my first fountain pen I
have a few questions:

1. I see a lot of talk about some pens being 'scratchy' but how do
you define that? This pen does not seem to write as smooth as my
roller ball, but it does not catch on the paper either. Should it
feel like I am writing on glass or should I be able to feel the
texture of the paper when I write? Also, it is a fine tip if that
matters.

That's a matter of taste, and is also affected by the choice of paper
and the lubricity of the ink. I prefer a "sliding on ice" feel but
fairly few pens have this feel (my Pelikan M400 EF is actually one
that does). But then I write a *lot* every day (16 full 8 1/2 x 11
pages today so far, and that's less than usual)

2. How long should I be able to leave the cap off and have it
'start' right away? I have discovered that if I am in a meeting
taking notes and I don't write anything for about 5 minutes, the pen
wont start writing as soon a I put it to the paper. Is that normal?
I am using Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink in the pen.

I'd say some hesitancy after five minutes with the cap off is pretty
normal. You'll develop the habit of putting the cap back on and you
won't even think about it.

"Michael Wright" wrote in message
...
Taste varies, and so does paper. I used to like nibs that glide
like butter on glass, but now I prefer nibs that let me feel the
contact of nib with paper.

just wanted to ramble on this topic for a moment.

I find it all depends on what type of nib I'm using and the mood I'm in.
With a standard ball-tipped nib I prefer a very smooth write most of the
time. Preferably with no flex. With a flex nib I want smooth but a good
sharp fine nib. Haven't tried a flex nib that is anything other than fine
or extra fine and don't think I'd care for it much. But for stubs, I like a
"sharp" feel - corners closer to the sharpness of an italic nib than the
buttery stubs most people probably like. It is partly to do with line
definition but more to do with feedback. something about that little added
sharpness gives a tactile sensation that I prefer. Italic nibs can vary -
with or without tipping, crisp or slightly rounded - but a little bit dry is
good for line definition. obliques - well, I like obliques in general but
not wild about anything over 15 degrees and prefer something a little less
usually. left-footed easiest for me to use but I adjust quickly to
right-footed as well.

all this is really just to make a point (NPI*) that there are so many
wonderful varieties of nibs that I never really knew about until I started
reading the boards. I appreciate all the folks here and on Pentrace and
Rambling Snail who have broadened (NPI-again) my view of fountain pens.

KCat

*No pun intended

"Tony Fischer" wrote in message
om...
I just got a new Pelikan M800. This being my first fountain pen I
have a few questions:

1. I see a lot of talk about some pens being 'scratchy' but how do
you define that? This pen does not seem to write as smooth as my
roller ball, but it does not catch on the paper either. Should it
feel like I am writing on glass or should I be able to feel the
texture of the paper when I write? Also, it is a fine tip if that
matters.

The late Frank Dubiel once chewed on me for describing a pen as scratchy
when it wasn't damaging the paper and convinced me to use words like "rough"
and "smooth" instead. As others have mentioned, the amount of tactile
feedback is one of personal preference and may vary by pen, paper, ink, and
size of nib. In general, a finer nib will not write as smoothly as a broader
nib simply because there is less lubricant (ink) between the nib and paper.
Also, the amount of wetting agent strongly influences whether an ink is
"wet" or "dry" and a dry ink will not feel as smooth as a wet ink because
the wetting agent acts as a lubricant. I'm not an expert so it'll be better
for you to google this group to read more about this factor.

IMO, Montblanc is the driest ink I've tried. Private Reserve and Pelikan are
somewhat dry so you may want to try another ink for a smoother write.
Personally, I prefer a smooth ride and tend toward Sheaffer and Parker but
have been lured away by several Noodler's/Swisher inks, particularly the
waterproofs (try the black!), blue, Ottoman Rose, and Widow Maker. It took a
bit of experimenting to find the ideal inks for certain pens of mine, but it
was fun.

Welcome to the obsession.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Bluesea" scratches in the dirt with a pointy stick:

a finer nib will not write as smoothly as a broader nib simply because there
is less lubricant (ink) between the nib and paper.

Not true... regardless of nib size there is exactly/precisely the same amount
of ink between nib and paper, _per sq. in._ Finer nibs feel rough writing
because pinheaded newbies (like you) use too much pressure... the finer the nib
the less force one needs to exert to maintain equal pressure per sq.in. Finer
nibs are not rougher than broader nibs... why would manufacturers go out of
their way to use lesser quality grinding equipment on finer nibs - DUH! One
needs only to know how to write with a nibbed pen, which you obviously do not,
you haven't the slightest clue, probably never will, about anything.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

"PENMART01" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" scratches in the dirt with a pointy stick:

a finer nib will not write as smoothly as a broader nib simply because
there
is less lubricant (ink) between the nib and paper.

Not true... regardless of nib size there is exactly/precisely the same
amount
of ink between nib and paper, _per sq. in._ Finer nibs feel rough writing
because pinheaded newbies (like you) use too much pressure... the finer
the nib
the less force one needs to exert to maintain equal pressure per sq.in.
Finer
nibs are not rougher than broader nibs... why would manufacturers go out
of
their way to use lesser quality grinding equipment on finer nibs - DUH!
One
needs only to know how to write with a nibbed pen, which you obviously do
not,
you haven't the slightest clue, probably never will, about anything.

HAHAHAHAHAHA...caught you, didn't I?

Seriously, though, it isn't a matter of the quality of grinding equipment
(that's so stupid, I don't know why you even mentioned it) nor especially
one of pressure (I have four pens that are the same except for different
sized nibs - the mediums are smoother than the fines), but that the fine
nib, being smaller, has a sharper point and needs more lubricant (which it
can't get because the amount of ink supplied is proportional to the nib
size, as you indicated) in order to feel as smooth as a broader nib. If I
use less pressure with a fine nib to get the same feel as the medium nibs,
there's no ink on the page.

You'd love that, wouldn't you?

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Bluesea" spews:

"PENMART01" wrote:
"Bluesea" scratches in the dirt with a pointy stick:

a finer nib will not write as smoothly as a broader nib simply because
there
is less lubricant (ink) between the nib and paper.

Not true... regardless of nib size there is exactly/precisely the same
amount
of ink between nib and paper, _per sq. in._ Finer nibs feel rough writing
because pinheaded newbies (like you) use too much pressure... the finer
the nib
the less force one needs to exert to maintain equal pressure per sq.in.
Finer
nibs are not rougher than broader nibs... why would manufacturers go out
of
their way to use lesser quality grinding equipment on finer nibs - DUH!
One
needs only to know how to write with a nibbed pen, which you obviously do
not,
you haven't the slightest clue, probably never will, about anything.

HAHAHAHAHAHA...caught you, didn't I?

Seriously, though, it isn't a matter of the quality of grinding equipment
(that's so stupid, I don't know why you even mentioned it) nor especially
one of pressure (I have four pens that are the same except for different
sized nibs - the mediums are smoother than the fines), but that the fine
nib, being smaller, has a sharper point and needs more lubricant (which it
can't get because the amount of ink supplied is proportional to the nib
size, as you indicated) in order to feel as smooth as a broader nib. If I
use less pressure with a fine nib to get the same feel as the medium nibs,
there's no ink on the page.

Like I said, you haven't a clue and never will, not about anything... what a
moron.

Adios mother****er.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

"Bluesea" wrote in message
...
IMO, Montblanc is the driest ink I've tried. Private Reserve and Pelikan
are
somewhat dry so you may want to try another ink for a smoother write.

I agree on the MB - this is a stingy ink and while that works well for some
pens, in a pen that seems "rough" then I think it's worth trying a different
ink before jumping to the conclusion that something is wrong with the nib.

Pelikan inks also seem to be dry by comparison to Aurora inks or some
others.

PR seem to vary considerably. Some seemed a bit dry to me - Copper Burst,
any of the pastels. Others have excellent flow - Naples, American Blue,
Sherwood. So it's a bit of a crap shoot.

J Herbin inks tend to be a bit pale but again, flow varies. I have used
Violet Pensee in a flexible nib and found it to be very nice - very similar
to Sheaffer NOS Lavender. Rose Cyclamen had good flow. But the Herbin reds
were thin and stingy.

so many inks, so little time. :-)