two questions about Russian 50 kopek pieces (1913)

There are two mintmaster varieties for the Russian 50 kopek silver
coins minted in 1913. Initials of the mintmaster were struck in incuse
letters on the coin's edge. The most common by far is the variety of
the later mintmaster, Viktor Smirnov. His initials in Cyrillic letters
look like "BC" in Latin letters.

I've been looking for the other variety with "EB" on the edge (for
Elikum Babayants) for some time now, and a couple of weeks ago I
finally saw, and won one, on eBay (hoorah!). The seller was located in
London, and I was able to snipe the bid at £42, or about $80.
Fortunately, in addition to having the desired initials, it is in
EF/AU coundition with just a couple of minor rim dings, so I am pretty
happy about the purchase.

So here are my questions:

(1) When I took pictures of the coin, I also took some of the edge
lettering and noticed that on the EB variety, the edge lettering runs
clockwise if you are facing the obverse side; with the VS variety, it
is counterclockwise -- thus appearing upside-down relative to the EB
edge lettering. Is this a consistent attribute of these coins, or does
the edge lettering run one direction on some of them and on others in
the opposite direction regardless of mintmaster?

(2) Just how rare is this EB variety compared to the other? According
to Krause, there isn't that much of a premium for these. Mintage
population numbers are lumped together for that year. However, the
Uzdenikov catalogue rates the scarcity of 1913 EB with a dash, which
is the second-lowest scarcity rating. In comparison, the 1911 50 kopek
piece (only one variety, EB) has only a dot (lowest scarcity rating;
commonly available coins have no scarcity rating at all), but the
prices in Krause would seem to indicate that 1911 is much scarcer than
the 1913 EB variety. I have been shopping for these for about 6 months
now, and I have to date run across at least three auctions for a 1911
50 kopek piece and only that one auction for 1913 EB which I won.
Which is closer to the truth, Uzdenikov or Krause? Usually I tend to
believe Uzdenikov, but then again Uzdenikov has no mintage population
for each year like Krause does.

I am looking forward to reading R.W. Julian's book when it arrives.
Maybe this has some of the answers to these and other questions.

--
Bob Hairgrove

Regarding.....

(1) When I took pictures of the coin, I also took some of the edge
lettering and noticed that on the EB variety, the edge lettering runs
clockwise if you are facing the obverse side; with the VS variety, it is
counterclockwise -- thus appearing upside-down relative to the EB edge
lettering. Is this a consistent attribute of these coins, or does the edge
lettering run one direction on some of them and on others in the opposite
direction regardless of mintmaster?

With most edge-lettered world coins this orientation is random as (usually)
the lettering is applied before striking. So likely half of the pieces of
any one date/mintmaster combination will have the inscription one way around
and the rest will have it the other way around.

This is certainly what is seen with 1983-2003 British 1 Pound coins.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker



"Bob Hairgrove" wrote in message
...
There are two mintmaster varieties for the Russian 50 kopek silver
coins minted in 1913. Initials of the mintmaster were struck in incuse
letters on the coin's edge. The most common by far is the variety of
the later mintmaster, Viktor Smirnov. His initials in Cyrillic letters
look like "BC" in Latin letters.

I've been looking for the other variety with "EB" on the edge (for
Elikum Babayants) for some time now, and a couple of weeks ago I
finally saw, and won one, on eBay (hoorah!). The seller was located in
London, and I was able to snipe the bid at £42, or about $80.
Fortunately, in addition to having the desired initials, it is in
EF/AU coundition with just a couple of minor rim dings, so I am pretty
happy about the purchase.

So here are my questions:

(1) When I took pictures of the coin, I also took some of the edge
lettering and noticed that on the EB variety, the edge lettering runs
clockwise if you are facing the obverse side; with the VS variety, it
is counterclockwise -- thus appearing upside-down relative to the EB
edge lettering. Is this a consistent attribute of these coins, or does
the edge lettering run one direction on some of them and on others in
the opposite direction regardless of mintmaster?

(2) Just how rare is this EB variety compared to the other? According
to Krause, there isn't that much of a premium for these. Mintage
population numbers are lumped together for that year. However, the
Uzdenikov catalogue rates the scarcity of 1913 EB with a dash, which
is the second-lowest scarcity rating. In comparison, the 1911 50 kopek
piece (only one variety, EB) has only a dot (lowest scarcity rating;
commonly available coins have no scarcity rating at all), but the
prices in Krause would seem to indicate that 1911 is much scarcer than
the 1913 EB variety. I have been shopping for these for about 6 months
now, and I have to date run across at least three auctions for a 1911
50 kopek piece and only that one auction for 1913 EB which I won.
Which is closer to the truth, Uzdenikov or Krause? Usually I tend to
believe Uzdenikov, but then again Uzdenikov has no mintage population
for each year like Krause does.

I am looking forward to reading R.W. Julian's book when it arrives.
Maybe this has some of the answers to these and other questions.

--
Bob Hairgrove

The remarks by Mr. Baker are correct; at that time, and still mostly
true, the edge lettering
is applied before striking, so can appear either up or down on the
finished coin.

In 1965 H.M. Severin (in his book on Russian silver coinage of
1682-1917) called the 1913
EB 50 kopecks an extremely rare coin, which it is not. I obtained the EB
version long ago
(as well as the BC [VS]) variety with little trouble. The EB variety is
the scarcer of the two
but, in my opinion, not by all that much.

The 1911 shows up on a regular basis though whether it is more or less
common than the
1913 EB I cannot say.

V.V. Uzdenikov published a book of just mintage figures in 1995. It is
in Russian but easy
to understand.

RWJ


Paul Baker wrote:

Regarding.....

(1) When I took pictures of the coin, I also took some of the edge

lettering and noticed that on the EB variety, the edge lettering runs
clockwise if you are facing the obverse side; with the VS variety, it is
counterclockwise -- thus appearing upside-down relative to the EB edge
lettering. Is this a consistent attribute of these coins, or does the edge
lettering run one direction on some of them and on others in the opposite
direction regardless of mintmaster?

With most edge-lettered world coins this orientation is random as (usually)
the lettering is applied before striking. So likely half of the pieces of
any one date/mintmaster combination will have the inscription one way around
and the rest will have it the other way around.

This is certainly what is seen with 1983-2003 British 1 Pound coins.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker



"Bob Hairgrove" wrote in message
.. .

There are two mintmaster varieties for the Russian 50 kopek silver
coins minted in 1913. Initials of the mintmaster were struck in incuse
letters on the coin's edge. The most common by far is the variety of
the later mintmaster, Viktor Smirnov. His initials in Cyrillic letters
look like "BC" in Latin letters.

I've been looking for the other variety with "EB" on the edge (for
Elikum Babayants) for some time now, and a couple of weeks ago I
finally saw, and won one, on eBay (hoorah!). The seller was located in
London, and I was able to snipe the bid at £42, or about $80.
Fortunately, in addition to having the desired initials, it is in
EF/AU coundition with just a couple of minor rim dings, so I am pretty
happy about the purchase.

So here are my questions:

(1) When I took pictures of the coin, I also took some of the edge
lettering and noticed that on the EB variety, the edge lettering runs
clockwise if you are facing the obverse side; with the VS variety, it
is counterclockwise -- thus appearing upside-down relative to the EB
edge lettering. Is this a consistent attribute of these coins, or does
the edge lettering run one direction on some of them and on others in
the opposite direction regardless of mintmaster?

(2) Just how rare is this EB variety compared to the other? According
to Krause, there isn't that much of a premium for these. Mintage
population numbers are lumped together for that year. However, the
Uzdenikov catalogue rates the scarcity of 1913 EB with a dash, which
is the second-lowest scarcity rating. In comparison, the 1911 50 kopek
piece (only one variety, EB) has only a dot (lowest scarcity rating;
commonly available coins have no scarcity rating at all), but the
prices in Krause would seem to indicate that 1911 is much scarcer than
the 1913 EB variety. I have been shopping for these for about 6 months
now, and I have to date run across at least three auctions for a 1911
50 kopek piece and only that one auction for 1913 EB which I won.
Which is closer to the truth, Uzdenikov or Krause? Usually I tend to
believe Uzdenikov, but then again Uzdenikov has no mintage population
for each year like Krause does.

I am looking forward to reading R.W. Julian's book when it arrives.
Maybe this has some of the answers to these and other questions.

--
Bob Hairgrove