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#11
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 13 Aug 2006 14:50:02 -0700, "Retire to Italy"
wrote: ok am I crazy or ahy would anyone want to collect a stupid letter??? check me in to a lunny bin but I think I am right here... give me a BIG coin anyday'' Julia Goodbye, Julia Plonk Reclining Buddha The Original Couch Potato! |
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#12
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 13 Aug 2006 12:26:03 -0700, "prgrmr" wrote:
on ebay, an eleven page letter from the Secretary of the Treasury in reply to a Senate resolution requesting the US Mint to report on the circulation of foreign coins within the Union: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140018361630 It's 187 years old, and looks it. However, the pages aren't brittle, it's quite readable and a great piece of original US numismatic history. Thanks for looking This was a nice and historical piece of numismatic history, but you do realize that it wasn't the actual letter from the SoT, don't you? The actual letter would have been hand written and hand signed. This was a pamphlet or section from a printed book, similar to the congressional record. These books were very popular at that time and distributed to nearly every library in the US. Reclining Buddha The Original Couch Potato! |
#13
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 13 Aug 2006 17:04:43 -0700, "prgrmr" climbed to
the top of the minaret and sang out: Retire to Italy wrote: ok am I crazy or ahy would anyone want to collect a stupid letter??? check me in to a lunny bin but I think I am right here... give me a BIG coin anyday'' It's not stupid, it's an informative piece of history. The US Mint wasn't even yet 20 years old, and here they are having to answer to the Senate about their competition, which was still in circulation throughout the Union. This is a great companion to an 1819 large cent, quarter, or half dollar--which were the only small denominations the Mint produced that year. You know, that sounded good. I think I'll add that to the auction text. Thisis definitely NOT stupid. A letter like this is a pretty interesting numismatic-related item. It would have been pretty cool to put the letter with an 1819 large cent as a lot. --- God wouldn't recognize his own son the way they've got him dressed up (Ray Bradbury) |
#14
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
Reclining Buddha wrote:
This was a nice and historical piece of numismatic history, but you do realize that it wasn't the actual letter from the SoT, don't you? The actual letter would have been hand written and hand signed. No, that is not true. Do not confuse the --wording-- with the facts. The Secretary of the Treasury filed reports, answered inquiries, etc. In the late 19th century, an annual Report became traditional. How could one person communicate with 100, except by printing? Do you realize that the day after the Boston Massacre, that Paul Revere was already distributing engravings of the incident? I just finished reading a biography of John Adams. As vice president he was President of the Senate, a job he took seriously. You can find the Congressional records (plural) online via the Library of Congress. As for distribution, the House and/or Senate would have copies for each member, and of course, the Library of Congress would have one and since it originated in Treasury, there would be that one. One of the incidents of Adams's presidency was the release of the terms of negotiations with France. Congress "demanded" to know... so, everyone got a copy... next day, the newspapers had some of these. In my estimation, Programmer's "Letter" is genuine as described. |
#15
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 14 Aug 2006 15:21:31 -0700, "Mike Marotta"
wrote: Reclining Buddha wrote: This was a nice and historical piece of numismatic history, but you do realize that it wasn't the actual letter from the SoT, don't you? The actual letter would have been hand written and hand signed. No, that is not true. Do not confuse the --wording-- with the facts. The Secretary of the Treasury filed reports, answered inquiries, etc. In the late 19th century, an annual Report became traditional. How could one person communicate with 100, except by printing? Do you realize that the day after the Boston Massacre, that Paul Revere was already distributing engravings of the incident? I just finished reading a biography of John Adams. As vice president he was President of the Senate, a job he took seriously. You can find the Congressional records (plural) online via the Library of Congress. As for distribution, the House and/or Senate would have copies for each member, and of course, the Library of Congress would have one and since it originated in Treasury, there would be that one. One of the incidents of Adams's presidency was the release of the terms of negotiations with France. Congress "demanded" to know... so, everyone got a copy... next day, the newspapers had some of these. In my estimation, Programmer's "Letter" is genuine as described. Yes, it is genuine as described, with a price at least 10 times the true value, which would leave a naive bidder to believe that it is an original letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, not a copy made for mass distribution. The [67] on each page would normally refer to the position in a book of some kind (as in, this is to be placed as article 67 in volume such-&-such of the some book such as the Congressional Record), and the edge clearly shows evidence of being bound in a larger book, as evidenced by the six strings which once held the various pages together at the spine. A letter or small pamphlet would have been too small to bind by itself in such a manner. For $149, most would expect that they were bidding on the original letter, signed by the original government official in his own hand, not a mass produced copy made for quantity distribution. I collect newspapers and books from this period, and such a piece would have normally sold in the under $10 range, if it had not been priced as an original letter, with no written description detailing the true nature. Reclining Buddha The Original Couch Potato! |
#16
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
Argentina!
"Steve Norton" wrote in message t... Mike Marotta wrote: prgrmr wrote: on ebay, an eleven page letter from the Secretary of the Treasury ... it's quite readable and a great piece of original US numismatic .. I can't believe you are selling it! I would have to have two to let go of one. I would at least scan the thing and then extract the information from it for a separate publication. ... but that's me... and another man's treasure is one man's trash. Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? Perhaps if the winner is from RCC they will scan and share it. How many people out there can give the current name of "Province Rio de la Plata"? (listed on the 2nd image in the auction.) |
#17
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
Reclining Buddha wrote: Yes, it is genuine as described, with a price at least 10 times the true value, which would leave a naive bidder to believe that it is an original letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, not a copy made for mass distribution. You sir, are an idiot. At no point did I claim this to be a hand-written letter from the Secretary. The piece is entitled "Letter from the Secretary of the Treasury" and was published as such. Yes, it is clearly been disbound from a larger volume, as per normal for this type of government communication. For $149, most would expect that they were bidding on the original letter, signed by the original government official in his own hand, not a mass produced copy made for quantity distribution. Wrong again. A handwritten piece of numismatic history such as that would have sold for well over $500 and I wouldn't at all be surprised if over $1,000. I collect newspapers and books from this period, and such a piece would have normally sold in the under $10 range, if it had not been priced as an original letter, with no written description detailing the true nature. Ah, you are a generalist who thinks his experiences are directly applicable to a special, narrower area of expertice. You are wrong about that as well. It was priced for what it was: a rare copy of a government communication from the time period indicated. Government published, numismatic related communications from any time in the 1800s are not common. And the further back in time you go, the less common they become. The current numismatic community places a premium on these documents. As such, I misrepresented nothing, and you are out of line. -- mark |
#18
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 19 Aug 2006 07:59:54 -0700, prgrmr wrote:
Reclining Buddha wrote: Yes, it is genuine as described, with a price at least 10 times the true value, which would leave a naive bidder to believe that it is an original letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, not a copy made for mass distribution. You sir, are an idiot. At no point did I claim this to be a hand-written letter from the Secretary. Your subject line says "1819 letter", not "copy of 1819 letter". Maybe to you that's not a distinction, but by giving just a date and the word letter, you give, believe it or not, the impression that it's a letter and it's from that date. If you were being forthright, you would have included the "copy of" in front of "1819 letter", but you did not. I'm with Buddha on this one. |
#19
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
On 19 Aug 2006 07:59:54 -0700, "prgrmr" wrote:
Ah, you are a generalist who thinks his experiences are directly applicable to a special, narrower area of expertice. You are wrong about that as well. It was priced for what it was: a rare copy of a government communication from the time period indicated. Government published, numismatic related communications from any time in the 1800s are not common. And the further back in time you go, the less common they become. The current numismatic community places a premium on these documents. As such, I misrepresented nothing, and you are out of line. Obviously, you care little for the truth, in both your auctions and your postings in this group. How much do you feel those 11 pages ripped from a mass produced book would have been bid to if you had started bidding at $10 and told the whole story as to what the piece was, where it was pulled from, and pointed out (or even mentioned) the fact that it in no way was an original "letter" from the Secretary of the Treasury to anyone? Reclining Buddha The Original Couch Potato! |
#20
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FA: 1819 Letter from Sec of Treas. to Senate
Dave Hinz wrote: Your subject line says "1819 letter", not "copy of 1819 letter". Maybe to you that's not a distinction, but by giving just a date and the word letter, you give, believe it or not, the impression that it's a letter and it's from that date. If you were being forthright, you would have included the "copy of" in front of "1819 letter", but you did not. I'm with Buddha on this one. The title of the document is "Letter from...", which is what it is. The pictures provided ought to be enough of a clue that it's a printed copy, plus the auction text states "uncut as published" which is being fairly forthright that it's not a hand written copy. -- mark |
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