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Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 18th 07, 04:55 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
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Posts: 16
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?


"j. fabian" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"LarryW" wrote:

What exactly is it that you would have Pelikan do? Number or drops
expelled while (hopefully) holding the pen vertically, tip down,

over
something to catch the ink, is hardly a real-world test. How about

just
writing with your pen? Does it write-out too fast? What nib size are

you
using?

I own 4 Montblanc 149s. Each one expels a different number of drops
after filling. Each one also has a different width nib -- from Extra
Fine to Oblique Double Broad. All hold exactly the same volume of

ink,
however. I have about ten Pelikan 100/100N pens, vintage and
reproduction. The ones with broad or oblique broad nibs produce

larger
drops than the extra fines. Big surprise.

It's simply a matter of physics -- an Oblique Double Broad nib to

fit a
Montblanc 149 (their biggest nib on their biggest pen) has a huge
surface area for the ink/water to stick to before gravity overcomes
surface tension. Would you expect an Extra Fine to be able to hold

the
same size "drop"?

The M1000 and M1050 were introduced ten years ago. Had there been a
groundswell of dissatisfaction with their capacity it would be

common
knowledge by now.

Until you raised the idea of counting drops I had never given any
thought to any of my pens' capacities -- unless they were sorely

lacking
as evidenced by me having to refill too often. I only counted drops

when
following the instructions on filling a piston-fill pen and

expelling
four drops to let a little air back in to combat thermal expansion.

I have been using MBs and Pelikans since the late '70s and have

never
even thought of complaining to either company about _anything_,
including capacity.

And as for your view of Chryslers, a better pen to compare would be

the
Waterman Edson. That huge, obese body has a tiny little Waterman
standard converter rattling around inside it. It's a good thing they
write like crap and easily fall apart or people might start

complaining.

j f

There is no problem now that I realize that the reservoir size has
nothing to do with the amount of ink it should hold. If they will
replace my nib with one that writes to my satifaction, I can live with
the ink capacity. Overall, I think Pelikan is still among the finest
to be had.
-LarryW


Ads
  #22  
Old March 18th 07, 05:01 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
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Posts: 16
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?


"Stephen Hust" wrote in message
...
"j. fabian" wrote:

That being said, I have a Pelikan M1000 with an Oblique Medium
nib. After filling it with _water_ (it isn't in my current
rotation), it produces 15 very large drops. "Very large" is not
an exact quantity. I have never thought it lacking in capacity.


Does your pen fill all the way up on the first try, or do you have
to repeat the filling process once or twice (keeping the nib and
part of the section submerged in the ink)?

--
Steve

The 1000 never fills all the way, 1st, second or even 3rd try. I have
even submerged the pen beyond the nib. I think that slightly less that
1/4 of the capacity is filled. I can just see the ink against a bright
light slosh back and forth.
--LarryW


  #23  
Old March 19th 07, 05:03 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
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Posts: 16
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?


"Paul G" wrote in message
...
again...remember you're filling the feed as well
this is normal


Paul, I have both Broad and Medium Oblique nibs. Using the Oblique
nib, I get between 16 and 20 large drops of h2O depending how fast I
draw the fluid in. I'm guessing my pen performs within a "normal
range." I think I "jumped the gun" with my concern about ink volumes.
I most certainly should be concerned more about other issues such as
scratchiness. Thank you all for all the help that was most
appreciated.
-LarryW

"LarryW" wrote in message
...

"Stephen Hust" wrote in message
...
"j. fabian" wrote:

That being said, I have a Pelikan M1000 with an Oblique Medium
nib. After filling it with _water_ (it isn't in my current
rotation), it produces 15 very large drops. "Very large" is not
an exact quantity. I have never thought it lacking in capacity.

Does your pen fill all the way up on the first try, or do you

have
to repeat the filling process once or twice (keeping the nib and
part of the section submerged in the ink)?

--
Steve

The 1000 never fills all the way, 1st, second or even 3rd try. I

have
even submerged the pen beyond the nib. I think that slightly less

that
1/4 of the capacity is filled. I can just see the ink against a

bright
light slosh back and forth.
--LarryW






  #24  
Old March 21st 07, 12:21 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
BL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 190
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?

LarryW wrote:

The hypo-syringe is a 3 cc; cc measurement in
right column, m in left. 16m=1cc.)


Hi Larry,
Perhaps there's a unit of measure of which I'm not aware (the "m" you refer
to above), but 1 cc is equal to 1 ml.

... With a loop, I noticed that the tines are
not symetrical as they should be. One tine is
slighly narrower and shorter than the other.
It tends to resemble an oblique slightly.


If one tine is shorter than the other, that's a problem. If one tine is
narrower than the other (i.e, the slit is cut a little off center), that
really isn't a problem and lots of nibs exhibit this imperfection.

Anyway, I'll return it. Truthfully I can't
really tell how much writing I get out of a
fill. I just thought that it should look
filled through the window similar to the MB.
The MB's chamber completely fills whereas the
M1000 you can not visually see the ink.


Well, you definitely should see ink when you look into the ink-view window.
In fact, the entire window should appear black when the pen is filled. If
you tip the pen, you may see an air bubble in there, but that's normal. When
you fill the pen, make sure you submerse the entire nib.... In fact,
submerse it far enough to cover about a third of the section as well.

It's possible that the overall size of the
M1000 does not gurantee it will hold any more
in than the smaller pens. Right now, my
greatest concern is to get a nice smooth
glide. My letters rarely exceed 3 pages and I
haven't run dry yet.


I don't know how many pages you should be able to write with a fill, but a
single fill of one of my 400s will last me days and I write a lot (many
pages of notes per day). -- B


  #25  
Old March 23rd 07, 01:05 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
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Posts: 16
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?


"BL" wrote in message
news:Ay8Mh.15454$1a6.15138@trnddc08...

Hi Larry,
Perhaps there's a unit of measure of which I'm not aware (the "m"

you refer
to above), but 1 cc is equal to 1 ml.

I don't know what the "m" unit is either.17 of them equal 1cc.

... With a loop, I noticed that the tines are
not symetrical as they should be. One tine is
slighly narrower and shorter than the other.
It tends to resemble an oblique slightly.


I went into nibs.com and followed advice and got both tines to line up
together. The pen now writes as smoothy as any other. I figured if I
messed it up, I could still send the mistake back and get a free
replacement. I'm surprised what little effort it took on my part to
get it sorted out. Tine was the same size after getting it
straighened!

Well, you definitely should see ink when you look into the ink-view

window.
In fact, the entire window should appear black when the pen is

filled. If
you tip the pen, you may see an air bubble in there, but that's

normal. When
you fill the pen, make sure you submerse the entire nib.... In fact,
submerse it far enough to cover about a third of the section as

well.

I'm afraid I'll never see more than 1/4 of the window (if that much.)

I don't know how many pages you should be able to write with a fill,

but a
single fill of one of my 400s will last me days and I write a lot

(many
pages of notes per day). -- B

I haven't decided whether or not to return pen for that reason by
itself. It may in fact be engineered that way. If this is the case, I
wonder if it isn't a flaw.
It has good flow and it glides like butter across the page. This makes
me very satisfied. -LarryW


  #26  
Old March 23rd 07, 01:16 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
BL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 190
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?

LarryW wrote:

I went into nibs.com and followed advice and
got both tines to line up together. The pen
now writes as smoothy as any other. I
figured if I messed it up, I could still send
the mistake back and get a free replacement.
I'm surprised what little effort it took on
my part to get it sorted out. Tine was the
same size after getting it straighened!


Yep, most of the time when a pen doesn't write smoothly, all it needs is a
little tine adjustment. One should always visually inspect the tines and
adjust them before considering more drastic measures like smoothing/sanding.
John's instructions are the best I've seen on the web.

I'm afraid I'll never see more than 1/4 of
the window (if that much.)


Does yours have a striped barrel or a solid barrel? When you screw down the
piston knob and the piston seal inside the pen retracts or pulls up, it only
retracts so far. That may be a quarter of the way up the barrel, but that's
how the pen is designed. The ink chamber is the space between the bottom of
the piston seal when it's in its highest position (piston knob screwed down
completely) and the top of the feed. In the striped pens, the clear stripes
run the entire length of the barrel. That doesn't mean you're supposed to
see ink from one end of the barrel to the other. The ink chamber is, by
design, only a small fraction of the entire volume of the barrel.

In the solid pens, there's usally a green transparent ink window between the
top of the section and the bottom part of an opaque section of the barrel.
When the pen is full, ink should cover the window when the pen is held nib
down.

I don't know how many pages you should be I
haven't decided whether or not to return pen
for that reason by itself. It may in fact be
engineered that way. If this is the case, I
wonder if it isn't a flaw. It has good flow
and it glides like butter across the page.
This makes me very satisfied. -LarryW


I wish I could see the pen. I'm having difficulty picturing what you think
is wrong with the pen. -- B


  #27  
Old March 23rd 07, 01:24 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Pelikan maintaining vacuum (Was: Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?)


"j. fabian" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"LarryW" wrote:

The 1000 never fills all the way, 1st, second or even 3rd try. I

have
even submerged the pen beyond the nib. I think that slightly less

that
1/4 of the capacity is filled. I can just see the ink against a

bright
light slosh back and forth.
--LarryW


If this keeps up after you get it back from Chartpak (it shouldn't)

you
can always try lubricating the piston to restore its vacuum seal.

With
all Pelikan pens you can remove the nib and feed by simply

unscrewing
the unit.

Clear lithium grease, available many places including

Pendemonium.com
and fph.com (Fountain Pen Hospital here in Manhattan), and a wood
toothpick. With a dry pen, remove the nib/feed. Advance the piston

about
halfway toward the section. Take your toothpick and a small amount

of
Lithium grease and *gently* spread a thin coat of grease all the way
around the circumference of the piston where it contacts the barrel.
Gently work the piston back and forth a few times to smear the

grease
evenly on the piston edge. Advance it all the way to the section and
retract it all the way to remove stray deposits on the barrel. This
should restore full vacuum seal to the filler. Replace the nib/feed

and
you are good to go.

One of the benefits of Pelikan's long history of fine tolerances in
engineering (the 100s and 100Ns from the 1930s had interchangeable

nibs
and a piston/vacuum fill system) is that they are easy work on. For
example, OMAS nibs/sections are sealed in the barrel with an amalgam
resembling jeweler's pitch. Modern Montblancs require special tools

to
remove the nibs/sections. Viscontis have interchangeable nib/feed
assemblies but without removing the bonded section their
negative-pressure fill-on-downstroke pistons are much more difficult

to
get at the valve.

You should enjoy years of enjoyable use from your M1000. It is a

pity
that the most recent pens seem to have suffered from manufacturing
defects, or at least lax quality control. I have no idea whether

this
corresponds to the time when Pelikan's holding company was bought

out by
their Far East financial partner (in Malaysia? I forget...) Chartpak

is
a good company -- we had a bad run with US distributors a few years
back. Chartpak seems to be very attentive to customer service.


Thanks for the advice. I will order some lithium grease and give it a
go if I decide to not return it. After getting the nib readjusted, it
is writing better than all of my others. It will be hard to part with
it for 2 weeks. I'm not sure what happened to the pen. It may have
been dropped to cause the misalligned tine. Charpak has always been
pleasant to work with. The interchagable nib is the one biggest reason
I selected Pelikan. Even with no problems, I'll end up owning 4 or 5
different nibs anyway. Already besides the medium, I have a bold and
an oblique medium. I'm going to order a fine nib next time and perhaps
an extra fine later. I don't care much for the oblique even though I
am a southpaw. Thanks again J.F! -LarryW


  #28  
Old March 24th 07, 12:14 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Joshua Judson Rosen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default units: drops? m? (was: Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?)

"BL" writes:

LarryW wrote:

The hypo-syringe is a 3 cc; cc measurement in
right column, m in left. 16m=1cc.)


Hi Larry,
Perhaps there's a unit of measure of which I'm not aware (the "m" you refer
to above), but 1 cc is equal to 1 ml.


Ah--"m" is for "minims"; there are 60 minims per dram, 8 drams per ounce.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apothecaries%27_system

Minims are also often referred to as "drops", which would make a lot
of sense out of his measuring `drops'.

If he's measuring 17 minims, that would be just about 1 ml.

--
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).
  #29  
Old March 24th 07, 02:14 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default units: drops? m? (was: Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?)

"Joshua Judson Rosen" wrote in message
...
"BL" writes:

LarryW wrote:

The hypo-syringe is a 3 cc; cc measurement in
right column, m in left. 16m=1cc.)


Hi Larry,
Perhaps there's a unit of measure of which I'm not aware (the "m"

you refer
to above), but 1 cc is equal to 1 ml.


Ah--"m" is for "minims"; there are 60 minims per dram, 8 drams per

ounce.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apothecaries%27_system

Minims are also often referred to as "drops", which would make a lot
of sense out of his measuring `drops'.

If he's measuring 17 minims, that would be just about 1 ml.

--
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


Hey Josh - - !
I believe you have solved the "enigmatic m" issue.... Oddly, I just
ran into a recipe scrolled in a very old book using drams and drops
(elixir of wormwood was one of the ingredients I immediately recall.)
Well, seems we have come around full circle, starting and ending in
drops! Many many thanks Josh. I'm comforted seeing how much tangible
space a drop occupies! -LarryW


  #30  
Old March 24th 07, 03:26 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
LarryW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Pelikan M1000 - How many drops does your barrel hold?


"BL" wrote in message
news:lyPMh.15969$1a6.2953@trnddc08...

Yep, most of the time when a pen doesn't write smoothly, all it

needs is a
little tine adjustment. One should always visually inspect the tines

and
adjust them before considering more drastic measures like

smoothing/sanding.
John's instructions are the best I've seen on the web.

John's instructions are indeed expressed well. His entire site I found
exceptional and without the concise clarity, I wouldn't have had the
confidence to at least give it a try.

I'm afraid I'll never see more than 1/4 of
the window (if that much.)


Does yours have a striped barrel or a solid barrel? When you screw

down the piston knob and the piston seal inside the pen retracts or
pulls up, it only
retracts so far. That may be a quarter of the way up the barrel, but

that's
how the pen is designed. The ink chamber is the space between the

bottom of the piston seal when it's in its highest position (piston
knob screwed down
completely) and the top of the feed. In the striped pens, the clear

stripes
run the entire length of the barrel. That doesn't mean you're

supposed to
see ink from one end of the barrel to the other. The ink chamber is,

by
design, only a small fraction of the entire volume of the barrel.

I have the green striped barrel. Through the translucent window, I can
see the sillouette of the internal works (piston, archimedean screw
etc.) When I draw ink into the chamber, I shouldn't be able to see
"empty" occupying the space below the piston. It should be visibly
occupied with ink. I did believe I should only see light from the top
of the piston all the way up the shaft surrounding the screw. Perhaps
this is not the case. J. Fabian suggested that I might try some
lithium grease to improve the vaccum seal around the piston. It's
conceivable the suction might be weak.


In the solid pens, there's usally a green transparent ink window

between the
top of the section and the bottom part of an opaque section of the

barrel.
When the pen is full, ink should cover the window when the pen is

held nib
down.



I wish I could see the pen. I'm having difficulty picturing what you

think
is wrong with the pen. -- B

Honestly, there may be nothing at all wrong with then pen. There may
be a misunderstanding on my part as to it's expectations. Apparently
20 drops capacity of ink may be generous regardless of how much it
is(n't) showing. This amount afterall is liberal compared to what the
Phileas or other similar converters hold. -LarryW


 




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