Ebay Pulled my ICCS coins!

Since when are Canadians subject to the rules of the American Numismatic
Association, which has admitted receiving money from American grading
companies for "endorsements"? I live in Canada, and have had several of my
ebay auctions pulled for "fraud" because my coins were graded by ICCS, not
one of the 4 approved American grading companies. The cancel notice says I
could be reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the American
Numismatic Association. Will the mounties come and get me because I have
violated the policies of a foreign organisation that I am not even a member
of? Is it an indictable or summary offence? Or is ebay just full of ****?


The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Counterfeit Currency
and Stamps policy. All fees related to this listing have been credited to
your account. We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the
listing has been canceled. eBay does not permit the sale of coins or paper
money that are fraudulent or improperly described or of slugs or tokens
intended to be fraudulently used in substitution for a coin. Sellers who
knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity of coins or
paper money, alterations to coins or paper money, or other information that
might have a material impact on the coin or paper money value may be
reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the provincial police forces
or the American Numismatic Association (ANA).

When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the
following authorized grading companies:

a.. Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
b.. Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)
c.. Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
d.. Independent Coin Grading (ICG)
e.. ANACS

"L. HOULLEVICQUE" wrote in message
...
Since when are Canadians subject to the rules of the American Numismatic
Association, which has admitted receiving money from American grading
companies for "endorsements"? I live in Canada, and have had several of
my ebay auctions pulled for "fraud" because my coins were graded by ICCS,
not one of the 4 approved American grading companies. The cancel notice
says I could be reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the
American Numismatic Association. Will the mounties come and get me
because I have violated the policies of a foreign organisation that I am
not even a member of? Is it an indictable or summary offence? Or is ebay
just full of ****?

Your non-membership in ANA is not germane to the case. It is your
membership in eBay that is germane, and they are the ones who make the rules
for listing. That said, the question you pose at the end of this first
paragraph has been up for debate for quite some time on this newsgroup.
Personally, although I am generally satisfied with eBay, it is my opinion
that they are way off base with this policy regarding slabbed coins. I wish
you the best of luck.

James

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:58:05 -0500, "L. HOULLEVICQUE"
wrote:

Since when are Canadians subject to the rules of the American Numismatic
Association,

The pulling of your ads had nothing to do with the ANA or America in
general. Your ads were in a private venue controlled by a private
corporation who has set some rules that apply to that venue.

which has admitted receiving money from American grading
companies for "endorsements"? I live in Canada, and have had several of my
ebay auctions pulled for "fraud" because my coins were graded by ICCS,

Your ads were not pulled because the coins were graded by ICCS. They
were pulled because you violated eBay's rules about the use and
placement of terms and wording in your ads. You can list ICCS graded
coins if you follow eBay's rules.

Or is ebay just full of ****?

In this case, yes. The rules were not thought out and show that the
person/people who came up with the rule are not familiar with the
world coin market. But, it's their ball and they can set the rules.

I would imagine that ICCS is lobbying eBay to have their certification
authorized by eBay. Whether or not this change is made, the buyers
and sellers of coins will continue to recognize the authenticity of
ICCS's grading service.

--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Are there any of the Micro "o" counterfeit dollars listed and are they
slabbed by one of the approved slabbers?

It would be interesting to see how ebay deal with them. Billy


"L. HOULLEVICQUE" wrote in message
...
Since when are Canadians subject to the rules of the American Numismatic
Association, which has admitted receiving money from American grading
companies for "endorsements"? I live in Canada, and have had several of
my ebay auctions pulled for "fraud" because my coins were graded by ICCS,
not one of the 4 approved American grading companies. The cancel notice
says I could be reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the
American Numismatic Association. Will the mounties come and get me
because I have violated the policies of a foreign organisation that I am
not even a member of? Is it an indictable or summary offence? Or is ebay
just full of ****?


The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Counterfeit Currency
and Stamps policy. All fees related to this listing have been credited to
your account. We also notified members who placed bids on the item that
the listing has been canceled. eBay does not permit the sale of coins or
paper money that are fraudulent or improperly described or of slugs or
tokens intended to be fraudulently used in substitution for a coin.
Sellers who knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity
of coins or paper money, alterations to coins or paper money, or other
information that might have a material impact on the coin or paper money
value may be reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the provincial
police forces or the American Numismatic Association (ANA).

When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the
following authorized grading companies:

a.. Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
b.. Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)
c.. Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
d.. Independent Coin Grading (ICG)
e.. ANACS

On Oct 16, 7:58?am, "L. HOULLEVICQUE" wrote:
Since when are Canadians subject to the rules of the American Numismatic
Association, which has admitted receiving money from American grading
companies for "endorsements"? I live in Canada, and have had several of my
ebay auctions pulled for "fraud" because my coins were graded by ICCS, not
one of the 4 approved American grading companies. The cancel notice says I
could be reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the American
Numismatic Association. Will the mounties come and get me because I have
violated the policies of a foreign organisation that I am not even a member
of? Is it an indictable or summary offence? Or is ebay just full of ****?

The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Counterfeit Currency
and Stamps policy. All fees related to this listing have been credited to
your account. We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the
listing has been canceled. eBay does not permit the sale of coins or paper
money that are fraudulent or improperly described or of slugs or tokens
intended to be fraudulently used in substitution for a coin. Sellers who
knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity of coins or
paper money, alterations to coins or paper money, or other information that
might have a material impact on the coin or paper money value may be
reported to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the provincial police forces
or the American Numismatic Association (ANA).

When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the
following authorized grading companies:

a.. Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
b.. Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)
c.. Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
d.. Independent Coin Grading (ICG)
e.. ANACS

My guess is that you listed these coins on eBay-US rather than eBay-
Canada. Once you did that you were obligated to follow the new rules
regarding certified coins.

The rules for "selling coins" on eBay-Canada do not contain these new
rules for certified coins (nor does eBay-Australia):

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-coins.html

On Oct 16, 9:19 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

Your non-membership in ANA is not germane to the case. It is your
membership in eBay that is germane, and they are the ones who make the rules
for listing. That said, the question you pose at the end of this first
paragraph has been up for debate for quite some time on this newsgroup.
Personally, although I am generally satisfied with eBay, it is my opinion
that they are way off base with this policy regarding slabbed coins. I wish
you the best of luck.

A search on eBay using "Canada ICCS" turned up 593 items.
In fact, I just bought a nice 1911 large cent with ICCS plastered all
over the auction.
Look like they're gonna be real busy canceling auctions over at eBay
central!

tony cooper wrote:


"The pulling of your ads had nothing to do with the ANA"

I have to disagree with you on this one Tony. The ANA is the prime mover
on these rules. eBay enacted these rules on the advice of the ANA. "The
ANA has worked with eBay since September 2004"

JAM

From the ANA

eBay Launches New Policy Within its Coins Category

ANA Applauds eBay Fraud Prevention Efforts

Yesterday, eBay launched a new policy in its Coins Category, which will
ensure that any coins listed as certified must be certified by one of
four grading companies.

"The ANA supports this effort to improve consumer protection for people
buying and selling coins on eBay," said ANA President Barry Stuppler.
"Although the ANA is not responsible for this policy, we support any
effort to reduce the potential for fraud and to help safeguard the
coin-collecting hobby."

The ANA has worked with eBay since September 2004, and through the Coins
Community Watch group has assisted eBay in identifying misrepresented or
fraudulent listings in the on-line auction company's coins category.
During this period, the ANA emphasized to eBay the need to establish
regulations designed to minimize the opportunity for consumer fraud.

"In order for consumer fraud to occur, three elements must be present: a
person's desire, ability and opportunity to commit the fraud," said ANA
Consumer Awareness Coordinator Susan McMillan, "We cannot control a
person's desire or ability, but we can try to remove the opportunity."

In February 2007, eBay approached ANA for input on how best to address
the issue of fraudulent grading and authenticating. The ANA provided
eBay with input on possible guidelines and also provided them with the
results of the PNG/ICTA 2006 Grading Services Survey.

In August, after much deliberation, the ANA recommended that eBay only
go forward with the policy change if eBay would use the results of the
PNG, ICTA 2006 Grading Service Survey. View the results of that survey
at: http://www.pngdealers.com/public/pre...cfm?article=47

"Ultimately, eBay's determination on which grading services would
qualify for the certified classification was solely an internal eBay
policy decision," said ANA Acting Executive Director Kenneth Hallenbeck.

According to the new eBay policy, which eBay officials say is intended
to improve buyer confidence, any listing of a "certified" coin must be
certified by one of the following companies: Numismatic Guaranty
Corp./Numismatic Conservation Services (NGC/NCS), Professional Coin
Grading Service (PCGS), Independent Coin Grading (ICG), or ANACS.

Sellers will still be permitted to list coins graded by other grading
services in other coin categories as long as they follow certain
conditions.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:54:00 -0700, RF wrote:

On Oct 16, 9:19 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

Your non-membership in ANA is not germane to the case. It is your
membership in eBay that is germane, and they are the ones who make the rules
for listing. That said, the question you pose at the end of this first
paragraph has been up for debate for quite some time on this newsgroup.
Personally, although I am generally satisfied with eBay, it is my opinion
that they are way off base with this policy regarding slabbed coins. I wish
you the best of luck.

A search on eBay using "Canada ICCS" turned up 593 items.
In fact, I just bought a nice 1911 large cent with ICCS plastered all
over the auction.
Look like they're gonna be real busy canceling auctions over at eBay
central!

If you searched "title and descriptions", all of those auctions are
not necessarily in violation of the new rule. The ICCS certification
can be in the description; just not the title.

eBay's not banning ICCS certified coins. They are banning the use of
the ICCS certification and a letter/number grade in the ad title. The
description can still carry this information, and the image can be of
a slabbed coin.




--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

tony cooper wrote:
They are banning the use of
the ICCS certification and a letter/number grade in the ad title.


I just did a search for ICCS in the title. It returned 480 items with ICCS AND a
number grade in the title.
http://coins.search.ebay.com/ICCS_Co...0QQsacatZ11116

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

On Oct 16, 10:35 pm, tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:54:00 -0700, RF wrote:
On Oct 16, 9:19 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

Your non-membership in ANA is not germane to the case. It is your
membership in eBay that is germane, and they are the ones who make the rules
for listing. That said, the question you pose at the end of this first
paragraph has been up for debate for quite some time on this newsgroup.
Personally, although I am generally satisfied with eBay, it is my opinion
that they are way off base with this policy regarding slabbed coins. I wish
you the best of luck.

A search on eBay using "Canada ICCS" turned up 593 items.
In fact, I just bought a nice 1911 large cent with ICCS plastered all
over the auction.
Look like they're gonna be real busy canceling auctions over at eBay
central!

If you searched "title and descriptions", all of those auctions are
not necessarily in violation of the new rule. The ICCS certification
can be in the description; just not the title.

My understanding is that a non-approved TPG can NOT be mentioned in
the auction text. But at any rate, "Canada ICCS" just in title returns
175 items.





eBay's not banning ICCS certified coins. They are banning the use of
the ICCS certification and a letter/number grade in the ad title. The
description can still carry this information, and the image can be of
a slabbed coin.