Question About Belgian Parcel Post - Paper Undulé

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:09:02 GMT, Ryan Davenport
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:29:52 +0100, Rein wrote:

as with the Belgian Catalogue there are 2 versions - a French and a Dutch
one. The Dutch says

SPA170A 3F horizontaal geribd papier
SPA171A 4F horizontaal geribd papier

and 'geribd' corresponds with 'ribbed' or 'laid'.

Hmmm... my 1992 catalog "Officiele Catalogus" doesn't even make a
mention of this. Are you using a newer catalog? My French C.O.B.
catalog is 2004.

Per the word "ribbed", one may think that you could feel them. You
can't. It comes closer to the true meaning than the French version!
(Unless, of course, there's some "back door" slang in the Nationalized
language.)

I have a Dutch copy of a 2007 catalogue, and it has the listing as
mentioned by Rein (although they're listed with an SP prefix, not SPA).
You should probably be familiar with ribbed stamps from Canadian
definitives - have a look through your Caricature low values and
Landscape high values (1972-1977), lots of those were issued on ribbed
paper. A few Centennials, Wildings and Environment stamps are also on
ribbed paper. The ribs on these Canadian stamps are very small,
certainly too small to be felt easily. Perhaps you can see them without
a magnifier, but with my eyes, I can't see them unless the stamp is
dirty. They're nothing at all like the gum breaker ridges on old
American stamps, for example. Whereas those stamps might have only 4
ridges across the stamp, Canadian ribbed stamps might have 40 or so.
Have a look at Level 8 on this page - the horizontal ribs on the 1c
Macdonald are clearly visible.

http://www.jlafontaine.com/index.php...1&sbc=&page=30

Now, I have no idea if that's what the Belgian catalogue is talking
about.

Very, very close to that, except that the ribs are spread far apart,
with only about 4 to 5 per stamp, hence I called them waves instead of
ribs. Maybe that was what the undulating meant to be.

Thanks - that is a very good example of a close relative to the
Belgian RR paper.

Tracy

Ryan,

you're right about the prefix, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

I've had a look at Jean Lafontaine's site. It's great - I like the
animated flaws!

As to the types of paper, he doesn't mention the origin of it. Judging
from the fine scans I would say the paper might be Harrison and Sons and
his 'Vertical fine rib paper' is nothing more than the usual mesh of that
type of paper (app. 30 lines/cm vertically). The 'Horizontal coarse RIB
paper' is what I call "IIIa" and that was over-common in the 1972-1985
period for most Dutch and English stamps on Harrison&Sons paper. I
wouldn't call it 'ribbed' at all....

Studying and classifying the paper mesh - the Harrison&Sons variety
especially - is the one thing that the Machinists forgot to do during
their 40 years struggle!!!

So, I think it has got nothing to do with the types of paper used before
the war.

groetjes, Rein

Op Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:09:02 +0100 schreef Ryan Davenport
:

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:29:52 +0100, Rein wrote:

as with the Belgian Catalogue there are 2 versions - a French and a
Dutch one. The Dutch says

SPA170A 3F horizontaal geribd papier
SPA171A 4F horizontaal geribd papier

and 'geribd' corresponds with 'ribbed' or 'laid'.
Hmmm... my 1992 catalog "Officiele Catalogus" doesn't even make a
mention of this. Are you using a newer catalog? My French C.O.B.
catalog is 2004.
Per the word "ribbed", one may think that you could feel them. You
can't. It comes closer to the true meaning than the French version!
(Unless, of course, there's some "back door" slang in the Nationalized
language.)

I have a Dutch copy of a 2007 catalogue, and it has the listing as
mentioned by Rein (although they're listed with an SP prefix, not SPA)..
You should probably be familiar with ribbed stamps from Canadian
definitives - have a look through your Caricature low values and
Landscape high values (1972-1977), lots of those were issued on ribbed
paper. A few Centennials, Wildings and Environment stamps are also on
ribbed paper. The ribs on these Canadian stamps are very small,
certainly too small to be felt easily. Perhaps you can see them without
a magnifier, but with my eyes, I can't see them unless the stamp is
dirty. They're nothing at all like the gum breaker ridges on old
American stamps, for example. Whereas those stamps might have only 4
ridges across the stamp, Canadian ribbed stamps might have 40 or so.
Have a look at Level 8 on this page - the horizontal ribs on the 1c
Macdonald are clearly visible.

http://www.jlafontaine.com/index.php...1&sbc=&page=30

Now, I have no idea if that's what the Belgian catalogue is talking
about.

Ryan



--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Rein wrote:
I've had a look at Jean Lafontaine's site. It's great - I like the
animated flaws!

As to the types of paper, he doesn't mention the origin of it. Judging
from the fine scans I would say the paper might be Harrison and Sons and
his 'Vertical fine rib paper' is nothing more than the usual mesh of
that type of paper (app. 30 lines/cm vertically). The 'Horizontal coarse
RIB paper' is what I call "IIIa" and that was over-common in the
1972-1985 period for most Dutch and English stamps on Harrison&Sons
paper. I wouldn't call it 'ribbed' at all....

From Robin Harris' website:

http://www.adminware.ca/checklist/chk_paper.htm

"From 1972 to early 1983, Abitibi-Price was the sole supplier of
paper for Canadian postage stamps. At that time, they decided on short
notice to discontinue producing this paper. For a period of time, Canada
Post was forced to use paper from non-Canadian paper mills."
There were three different printers for these definitives
(Ashton-Potter Toronto, British American Bank Note Ottawa, and Canadian
Bank Note Ottawa), but all used paper from Abitibi-Price.
Canada has 10% of the world's trees - you'd think we would never
need to import paper, but for a while, we did.

Ryan

Ryan,

thanks for pointing me to Robin Harris' website!

When you scroll a bit further there is a table that has among others:

Mint (gum) Used (back of stamp) 1st seen Inscription "code"
(letter)
Abitibi-Price clear (creamy look on the Artifact-series stamps) smooth
none
Harrison blue-green tinge; curls back of stamp has horizontal "lines" when
viewed against a darker background (looks textured, almost like ribbed
paper Aug 83 H

May I be right though in assuming it was Harrison&Sons???


groetjes, Rein

Op Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:34:58 +0100 schreef Ryan Davenport
:

Rein wrote:
I've had a look at Jean Lafontaine's site. It's great - I like the
animated flaws!
As to the types of paper, he doesn't mention the origin of it. Judging
from the fine scans I would say the paper might be Harrison and Sons
and his 'Vertical fine rib paper' is nothing more than the usual mesh
of that type of paper (app. 30 lines/cm vertically). The 'Horizontal
coarse RIB paper' is what I call "IIIa" and that was over-common in the
1972-1985 period for most Dutch and English stamps on Harrison&Sons
paper. I wouldn't call it 'ribbed' at all....

From Robin Harris' website:

http://www.adminware.ca/checklist/chk_paper.htm

"From 1972 to early 1983, Abitibi-Price was the sole supplier of
paper for Canadian postage stamps. At that time, they decided on short
notice to discontinue producing this paper. For a period of time, Canada
Post was forced to use paper from non-Canadian paper mills."
There were three different printers for these definitives
(Ashton-Potter Toronto, British American Bank Note Ottawa, and Canadian
Bank Note Ottawa), but all used paper from Abitibi-Price.
Canada has 10% of the world's trees - you'd think we would never
need to import paper, but for a while, we did.

Ryan



--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Rein wrote:
thanks for pointing me to Robin Harris' website!

When you scroll a bit further there is a table that has among others:

Mint (gum) Used (back of stamp) 1st seen
Inscription "code" (letter)
Abitibi-Price clear (creamy look on the Artifact-series stamps)
smooth none
Harrison blue-green tinge; curls back of stamp has horizontal
"lines" when viewed against a darker background (looks textured, almost
like ribbed paper Aug 83 H

May I be right though in assuming it was Harrison&Sons???

In our Unitrade specialized catalogue, it's always referenced as
"Harrison". Robin Harris is the editor of this catalogue, and he also
produces a series of specialized catalogues for each of the Elizabethan
definitive series. In these books, there is no more information given
regarding the paper manufacturers other than what he also shows on his
website. But judging from the description of textured horizontal lines
on the back of the stamp when the gum is soaked off (definitely lined
but not quite ribbed), that sounds exactly like what you had already
mentioned. Also, these Harrison stamps look just like the Machins - the
gum is a little bit blue-green, isn't too shiny, and the stamps curl a
bit on mint examples.
In the Introduction to the Unitrade catalogue, he adds this further
piece of info: "In 1983, following Abitibi Paper's decision to cease
manufacturing stamp paper, Canada Post's primary printing suppliers
began using stamp papers manufactured in Great Britain ..." Another
clue that it's almost certainly Harrison & Sons.

Ryan