If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:23:29 -0700, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote: Huh? Aren't Saints and other U.S. gold coins 90% gold and 10% copper? How would this qualify as "electrum" according to either yours or MEM's definition? Saints are alloyed with a small amount of silver along with copper, up to 1 percent silver. Interestingly, American Gold Eagles are alloyed with more silver, 3 percent, which is the reason for their paler color, Saints typically having more of an orange hue. -- Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
Ads |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Huh? Aren't Saints and other U.S. gold coins 90% gold and 10% copper? How would this qualify as "electrum" according to either yours or MEM's definition? Saints are alloyed with a small amount of silver along with copper, up to 1 percent silver. OK -- but I wouldn't consider 1% "appreciable", and therefore they're still not electrum by MEM's definition. -- Bob |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Reid again exhibits his penchant for selective citing/paraphrasing when he
says: "In the August issue of the Celator, in an article titled 'Electrum,' Michael Marotta broke free from this long tradition and defined it differently, as gold alloyed with any appreciable amount of silver." *Michael* defined "electrum"? Chapter and verse, please. Anka Z Co-president of the once thriving, but now defunct, Tommy John Fan Club. Go, Lake County Captains! |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Reid Goldsborough wrote:
If Michael's intention was to change the language, to change the definition of "gold" and "electrum" as they apply to numismatics, he should have said so. What he did, once again, was fashion an article in response to a little debate we had here. In that debate, I said that in most parts of the Greek world, after Kroisos (Croesus) established the bimetallic standard...... Aren't you changing the meaning of "bimetallic" as understood by numismatists? Bimetallic has a meaning quite different from your use of the word to describe an "alloy". |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:30:06 -0700, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote: OK -- but I wouldn't consider 1% "appreciable", and therefore they're still not electrum by MEM's definition. Michael didn't explicitly offer his own definition of electrum, just based his entire argument on an assumed definition that was very broad. He talked about how some geologists define electrum and in another place how some metallurgists define electrum. In still another place he mentioned the Pliny standard but for some reason didn't mention that this has become the way that numismatists define it. Your point, though, about silver in U.S. coinage is a good one. It typically has very little, and even under a wildly broad definition of electrum, most U.S. gold coins could not be considered electrum. -- Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
On 12 Oct 2003 20:02:16 GMT, (Ankaaz) wrote:
*Michael* defined "electrum"? Chapter and verse, please. I said in a previous message that Michael didn't explicitly offer his own definition of electrum, but he did base his argument on an assumed definition, one that's much broader than is used in numismatics, the Pliny standard. The subject of early electrum coinage is fascinating. What's most interesting isn't redefining established terms just for the sake of argument but the various theories of why these coins, the first coins, came into existence and why they were minted in electrum when all indications are that the ancient Lydians and Ionian Greeks possessed the technology to refine pure gold and silver. Don't you think? -- Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
On 12 Oct 2003 21:15:56 GMT, used (nit-picker)
wrote: Aren't you changing the meaning of "bimetallic" as understood by numismatists? I don't believe I am. Bimetallic has a meaning quite different from your use of the word to describe an "alloy". How so? -- Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Reid Goldsborough spoke thusly...
On 12 Oct 2003 21:15:56 GMT, used (nit-picker) wrote: Aren't you changing the meaning of "bimetallic" as understood by numismatists? I don't believe I am. Bimetallic has a meaning quite different from your use of the word to describe an "alloy". How so? When I think 'bimetallic' and 'coins', I think of coins like this: http://www.wbcc-online.com/italy/italy1.html not of coins made up of alloys. -- Stu Miller Visit the Virtual Coin Museum (over 100 displays): http://www.thestujoecollection.com/museum.htm Contact Me (Newsgroup email addy is invalid): http://www.thestujoecollection.com/contact.htm |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Stujoe wrote:
Reid Goldsborough spoke thusly... On 12 Oct 2003 21:15:56 GMT, used (nit-picker) wrote: Aren't you changing the meaning of "bimetallic" as understood by numismatists? I don't believe I am. Bimetallic has a meaning quite different from your use of the word to describe an "alloy". How so? When I think 'bimetallic' and 'coins', I think of coins like this: http://www.wbcc-online.com/italy/italy1.html not of coins made up of alloys. I don't think that someone unable to differentiate between 'alloy' and 'bimetallic' should be criticizing, much less authoring, an article for publication about electrum. Ever have someone explain to you how the valve in your car's radiator works? Or the thermostat on a mercury contact furnace switch? If you had, then you understand why an alloy is not 'bimetallic'. I'd explain in detail, but odds are good that once again Reid is trying to use the newsgroup to write his article for him. If he'd do his own research he'd understand why, at one time, pure silver was more valuable than pure gold. Alan 'Alloyed Metals is not a Rock Tour' |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The first coin - addenda | Reid Goldsborough | Coins | 66 | July 30th 03 05:30 PM |