FA: 1831 Bust Half PCGS AU-58

A great look with attractive album toning at rims, this coin is a
whisper of rub away from MS-63. If thruth be told, most MS-63s have a
trace of rub as well.

See it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1831-Bust-Half-P...mZ260249085032

Thanks for looking.

Ira

On Jun 7, 9:07*pm, Ira wrote:
A great look with attractive album toning at rims, this coin is a
whisper of rub away from MS-63. If thruth be told, most MS-63s have a
trace of rub as well.

See it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1831-Bust-Half-P...QitemZ26024908...

Thanks for looking.

Ira

Ah yes, what would a weekend be without Ira's usual blather and inane
hype about his coins?
Everyone he sells is, of course, undergraded and a bargain at twice
the price.
Pathetic, simply pathetic.

And what would a Ira post be without your predicable trash talk.
Your the Pathetic one here, Jelousy of this type needs professional advice.

Alan Marshall

"RF" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 9:07 pm, Ira wrote:
A great look with attractive album toning at rims, this coin is a
whisper of rub away from MS-63. If thruth be told, most MS-63s have a
trace of rub as well.

See it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1831-Bust-Half-P...QitemZ26024908...

Thanks for looking.

Ira

Ah yes, what would a weekend be without Ira's usual blather and inane
hype about his coins?
Everyone he sells is, of course, undergraded and a bargain at twice
the price.
Pathetic, simply pathetic.

On Jun 7, 10:00*pm, RF wrote:
On Jun 7, 9:07*pm, Ira wrote:

A great look with attractive album toning at rims, this coin is a
whisper of rub away from MS-63. If thruth be told, most MS-63s have a
trace of rub as well.

See it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1831-Bust-Half-P...QitemZ26024908...

Thanks for looking.

Ira

Ah yes, what would a weekend be without Ira's usual blather and inane
hype about his coins?
Everyone he sells is, of course, undergraded and a bargain at twice
the price.
Pathetic, simply pathetic.

So, I take it you would expect a seller to talk down his wares?
Do you think Ira has done something wrong to use his knowledge base
to cherry pick a major coin show and then try to profit from his
efforts? Then while doing so allow some of the less experienced
collectors to glean some information.

From what I've seen, most of the coins Ira handles are not for the
beginner or casual collector. And as such, a buyer ought to know what
is going on regardless of what Ira says.

If you want to make a point about something here, please point out
specific details as to why or why not to support your position. RCC
will be a better place for it.

Thank you for your understanding.

In , on
06/07/2008
at 07:37 PM, coinsusa said:

From what I've seen, most of the coins Ira handles are not for the
beginner or casual collector. And as such, a buyer ought to know what is
going on regardless of what Ira says.

There you go. I am actually in the market for this exact year in a PGCS
holder (a short set of others would do) marked as MS-something. This would
complete my string of MS bust halves from (dammit, my list is downstairs ...
) 1822-36 in certified MS. I would then "only" need 07-08-09-10-15-18-19-20
pieces for a complete year-date set. I figure the 15 probably isn't going
to happen for me .... pout.

I'll pass on this one. As it isn't marked as MS-something.

You can't tell MS for-sure from pictures, even the good ones provided for
this coin. However, I'm seeing what I believe is "the referenced rub(s)" in
the pics provided. Along with some other marks. Hence, to me, the claim of
MS-63-ness is eBay-typical and nothing I would ever bet on. PCGS didn't
mark it as MS-something and attempting to resubmit it wouldn't be a good
bet. Certainly a massive long-shot to try for a 63. All IMO, of course.

I could kick myself for not picking up the 1831 ANACS-MS-certified piece
from Downey's post MB ANA sale a couple of years back. I thought it was
overpriced at $750-800 (in that area, forget exactly) after having obtained
many pieces like it or better for much cheaper. I guess those were the good
old days and they're long gone now!

Nick

On Jun 7, 10:37*pm, coinsusa wrote:

*Do you think Ira has done something wrong to use his knowledge base
to cherry pick a major coin show and then try to profit from his
efforts?

Yes, I do. Ira and his fellow coin flipping kin prevent a real
collector from obtaining the coins at a lower price. They provide no
service that warrants an increase in price.

On Jun 8, 8:31 am, RF wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:37 pm, coinsusa wrote:

Do you think Ira has done something wrong to use his knowledge base
to cherry pick a major coin show and then try to profit from his
efforts?

Yes, I do. Ira and his fellow coin flipping kin prevent a real
collector from obtaining the coins at a lower price. They provide no
service that warrants an increase in price.

Huh! I wonder how that works? Gee, buying a coin for say $1500 from a
fellow dealer and "flipping" it to a collector
for $1700 prevents a collector from buying it a lower price? Two
errors here.

1. Ther vast majority dealers will NOT sell a coin to a collector or
non-dealer at the same price they'd sell it to to a fellow dealer,
especially one that does frequent business with them. Dealers
typically have about a 50-60% wholesale business, maybe more. If all
comers got the same price, the dealer would quickly discover that his/
her wholesale trade would drop off dramatically. Dealers would
generally take a lower price in exchange for regular churning of their
inventory, vital if they expect to remain in business. At every show
there are a bunch of glum dealers who hold out for retail sales only
and they typically have the inventory for years. It almost never
changes, and they can't afford to buy fresh inventory because they
have their funds tied up in stale merchandise. They are the first
dealers to complain about how terrible the market is!

2. The vast majority of collectors do not have the freedom of time,
inclination, or financial resources to fly to major shows all over the
country to find the coins they want. They rely on dealers to locate
the coins for them and have a return privilege if they don't like them
once the coin is seen in hand. Oh yes, they could buy at an auction,
rely on the overly color saturated photos in a catalog or on the web,
and compete with others. Then if it doesn't satisfy, too bad. No
return privileges in the major auctions. I wonder if RF (Robert
Finner) believes he can buy high grade key coins at almost any small
local show?

What a grasp of running a coin busines! Better stick to your moldy old
Hardy Boys books, Finner, with the 300-500% markup of which you rely
upon.

Ira

On Jun 7, 11:40 pm, "Nick Knight" wrote:
snip

You can't tell MS for-sure from pictures, even the good ones provided for
this coin. However, I'm seeing what I believe is "the referenced rub(s)" in
the pics provided. Along with some other marks. Hence, to me, the claim of
MS-63-ness is eBay-typical and nothing I would ever bet on. PCGS didn't
mark it as MS-something and attempting to resubmit it wouldn't be a good
bet. Certainly a massive long-shot to try for a 63. All IMO, of course.


Nick


I'm sorry Nick. Where did I write that this coin could upgrade to
MS-63? It has a bit too much friction for that.

I did write that most MS-63 bust halves have some friction as well,
and that's simply a fact. I believe the original PCGS grading guide
points that out. The amount of friction on a MS-63 should and
generally would be less than on this AU-58.

Numismatic writers Q David Bowers and Bill Fivaz describe the grade of
AU-58 as a MS-63 with rub and coins often possessing considerably more
eye appeal than a MS-60-62.

Ira

In , on
06/08/2008
at 07:59 AM, Ira said:

I'm sorry Nick. Where did I write that this coin could upgrade to MS-63? It
has a bit too much friction for that.

No need to be sorry, Ira.

But how "clever". No, there was no direct statement. Just insinuation.
The coin is in an AU-58 holder (and a perfect call, IMO, from the pics).
What relevance is it that some MS-63 coins show signs of friction? The
question is absolutely rhetorical: NONE. I believe I summed it up nicely
and accurately as "eBay-typical". Which is your right. As is mine to call
you on it. As I would any other seller hyping his own wares with fluff.

We've seen similar discussion about other seller here. Those folks who show
an off-brand holder (well, perhaps "used to" is correct now) and quote PCGS
prices for the coin. Relevance? None. The issue here is only mildly
different. We're just trying to blur the grade on the holder, instread of
the holder itself. I'd prefer to stay focused.

I did write that most MS-63 bust halves have some friction as well, and
that's simply a fact. I believe the original PCGS grading guide points that
out. The amount of friction on a MS-63 should and
generally would be less than on this AU-58.

Ok then, again, the relevance is what, exactly? Right: there is none. Why
not discuss MS-65 coins? Or MS-60/61, which is more likely where this coin
might end up in the hands of a liberal PCGS grader? Maybe a 62 from that
same grader if the planets are all aligned on a bright sunny Friday with a
romantic weekend with his girlfriend up next. Ah, that's right ... the Big
Value Jump is when you cross the MS-63 line. Why waste time with the
reality of the AU-58 marking?

Nick

On Jun 8, 10:50*am, Ira wrote:

What a grasp of running a coin busines!

Oh, little Ira is upset.
I got news for you, parasite, you DO NOT run a coin business. You
might as well be selling widgets or waffle irons.
You merely prey on dealers and collectors alike with some wrong-headed
notion of self-entitlement.
The coin world would be a whole lot better off without coin flippers
like you and your ilk.
The fact that you come here and make borderline misrepresentations of
your coins (yep it's AU58 but almost MS63 etc.) just increases my
disgust for you.