Question on new e-Bay rules.

"RF" wrote in message
...

A certain well-known whiner had auctions for non-approved TPGs pulled
for writing a price on the non-approved slab, even though the auction
text had no mention of TPG, certified, etc.
The probability of an auction being pulled is likely in direct
proportion to the number of complaints eBay receives about it.
Bragging about auctions which violate eBay regs is likely to cause
people to report said auctions.

Don't you sell under HARDYBOYSFAN? How would YOU like if YOUR business was
destroyed by a troll like yourself? There are many out there...

--
Helen Wallace
R.E. Wallace Stamps & Coins
Fort Worth, Texas
"Since 1948"

"John Mazor" wrote in message
news:CxQRj.7255$zw6.131@trnddc06...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

Checking the eBay rules once again, one of the three bullets describing
conditions under which raw and uncertified coins may be listed states:
"The grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or
description."

I don't see it beyond the realm of possibility that including a photo of
the company label on an unapproved slab could be construed by eBay as
referencing the grading company in the description. I assume the
description includes everything not otherwise in the auction title-- text
and photos. I can't document that this has happened for sure, but the
language seems to have been cleverly crafted so eBay could interpret it
in various ways should it choose to.

See my response to Cooper. He has a good alternate explanation for the
white list that may make further "down in the weeds" discussions moot, or
at the least, no longer worth the effort.

I believe you asked for anything in writing that suggests eBay could justify
pulling an auction because of a photo of a non-approved slab label. I
simply quoted a line from their rules that easily could be interpreted that
way. I also agree with Tony's take.

"RF" wrote in message
...
On Apr 29, 11:58 pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
For the record, I did have my account suspended for having a PHOTO of
an
unapporved slab, although Ebay admitted that my auction was cancelled
in error.
These emails were sent to me 1 day apart in February:

Received: from [216.33.244.32] (HELO rhv-kas-06.corp.ebay.com)
by smf-klm-01.corp.ebay.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.5)
with SMTP id 322283494; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:40:57 -0800
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:36:51 -0700
To: Frank Provasek
Subject: IV=C11005 Blocked or suspended account [#US 01007T A11
~MC011 ?01 ] (KMM282276658V27855L2KM)
From: eBay Customer Support
Reply-To: eBay Customer Support
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: KANA Response 7.0.1.142.13
Message-ID:

Dear Frank,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to all your coin listings being
removed.

Your listing was removed because it included an image of a coin
that was determined to be raw or uncertified by eBay policy, but
the image showed the name of a non-partner grading company.
This is considered to be in the description, and therefore not
allowed.....................................


snips

If this was indeed a valid eBay correspondence, I'm pretty sure this was the
instance I had recalled reading about.

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:39:14 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


"John Mazor" wrote in message
news:6nLRj.7203$zw6.4533@trnddc06...
Tony: I thought I had sent this earlier. I'm doing a belated posting
of
it because even though it wanders a bit afield, it helps to further
explain the background for my reasoning on the "slab photographs" rule:


lots of snipping

I just mentioned in another post that I can see how the following cite
from
the eBay rules could come into play where a seller includes a photo of the
company label on a non-approved slab. This could be interpreted as
referencing the grading company in the description, where anything not in
the title would be considered part of the description-- both text and
photos.

I'm getting visions of angels dancing on pinheads and the difficulty
of attempting to count them.

The generally accepted meaning of the word "description" in eBay ads
is the text in an ad. You can conflate "description" to include
anything that contributes to the impression given to the viewer in the
content of the ad, but you are on shaky ground to do so.

Maybe this is where the US Supreme Court should be called in. Since eBay
doesn't have a glossary where its interpretation of "description" is
defined, I believe photos or scans should be considered part of the
description like illustrations in a novel. A photo of a slab label with a
big "PCI" showing references that grading company in the description, IMO.
Apparently it doesn't in eBay's opinion-- the only one that counts.


eBay is not that complicated. Where they say "You can't do this", you
can't do it. If they don't say "You can't do this", then you can do
it until they change the rules. They don't currently say "You can't
use an image of a lower tier grading company". So you can.

I think wording more like "...referencing the grading company in the auction
text..." would indicate that it is okay it the name of the company appears
in a accompanying photo. Then, the angels could squaredance on the pinhead.


No example has been cited where eBay has pulled an ad because of an
image of a slabbed coin where the slabbing and grading has not been
done by an "approved" source and (add emphasis to the following) no
other violations appear in the ad.

While no one is accusing the eBay staff of having enough smarts to do
more than find their way home following a trail of bread crumbs, the
absence of mention of images does seem deliberate to me. I think they
deliberately left this loophole to allow the sale of certain slabbed
coins while attempting to restrict the use of search terms that could
result in misled buyers.

IMO, the choice of the word "description" instead of a more specific "text"
or "image" is what muddles things.

Have you ever seen the Running of the Bulls on a pin?

On Apr 30, 3:46*am, "Helen Wallace"
wrote:

How would YOU like if YOUR business was
destroyed by a troll like yourself? *There are many out there...

Calm down Frankie.
You aren't fooling anyone by posting under another name.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:13:46 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

IMO, the choice of the word "description" instead of a more specific "text"
or "image" is what muddles things.


Never underestimate the ability of people to be muddled. All it takes
is a quick review of some of the current ads on eBay to see that there
are some people who have a limited, *very* limited, understanding of
the definition of words.

I can envision someone reading a rule that says "Non-approved grading
companies cannot be mentioned or shown in the text" and wondering
where in the description that the text appears or thinking "That
doesn't apply to me. I don't use text in my description".

I remember seeing a question in an eBay forum where the person asked
"Can I add the cost of the box to the shipping and handling amount?"

I would not be surprised to see someone ask "I don't ship my items. I
mail them. Can I add postage costs?".


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:13:46 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

IMO, the choice of the word "description" instead of a more specific
"text"
or "image" is what muddles things.


Never underestimate the ability of people to be muddled. All it takes
is a quick review of some of the current ads on eBay to see that there
are some people who have a limited, *very* limited, understanding of
the definition of words.

I can envision someone reading a rule that says "Non-approved grading
companies cannot be mentioned or shown in the text" and wondering
where in the description that the text appears or thinking "That
doesn't apply to me. I don't use text in my description".

I remember seeing a question in an eBay forum where the person asked
"Can I add the cost of the box to the shipping and handling amount?"

I would not be surprised to see someone ask "I don't ship my items. I
mail them. Can I add postage costs?".

Oops. Thanks. Gotta change some wording in my auction....................

On Apr 30, 7:57*am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

If this was indeed a valid eBay correspondence, I'm pretty sure this was the
instance I had recalled reading about.-


Of course it's valid email from ebay...and I have no need to fabricate
stupid email from ebay...anyone who has dealt with them knows that is
the real thing. But if some vindictive troll reports EVERY auction
that has a photo of an unapproved slab, he will eventually reach an
ebay employee (or, more likely, some barely English-literate
contractor in some third world "call center") who can be convinced
that the "photo" equals the "description."

Maddening is that eBay seems to communicate all or most of the coin
listing policy correspondence under the fake name "Heidi" which means
your account suspension notices and account reinstatement notices make
it appear that you are dealing with.

The terms "photo," "title," "subtitle," "gallery photo," and
"description" all have VERY SPECIFIC MEANINGS on ebay...Look at
"Search title and description," for example...it certainly doesn't
search the photos!

--
Frank Provasek Rare Coins
http://www.frankcoins.com Ebay FRANKCOINS
Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
PCGS & NGC dealer, Full Time since 1991, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259

On Apr 30, 11:49*am, Frank Provasek wrote:
On Apr 30, 7:57*am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

If this was indeed a valid eBay correspondence, I'm pretty sure this was the
instance I had recalled reading about.-

Of course it's valid email from ebay...and I have no need to fabricate
stupid email from ebay...anyone who has dealt with them knows that is
the real thing. But if some vindictive troll reports EVERY auction
that has a photo of an unapproved slab, he will eventually reach an
ebay employee (or, more likely, some barely English-literate
contractor in some third world "call center") who can be convinced
that the "photo" equals the "description."

Well Fwankie, in another thread you whined that despite the best,
almost Herculean, efforts of the Texas Numismatic Assoc. and you, you
couldn't get auctions of "counterfeit" coins pulled.
Yet here you are claiming that "trolls" get your auctions pulled with
just a few emails.
Ask yourself, why is it that you can't get an auction pulled, yet
yours apparently get yanked left and right?
When will you be man enough to step up to the plate and admit that
your auctions were pulled due to YOUR errors and stop coming here
sniveling about trolls, Heidi and conspiracies?

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

If this was indeed a valid eBay correspondence, I'm pretty sure this was
the
instance I had recalled reading about.-


Of course it's valid email from ebay...and I have no need to fabricate
stupid email from ebay...anyone who has dealt with them knows that is
the real thing. But if some vindictive troll reports EVERY auction
that has a photo of an unapproved slab, he will eventually reach an
ebay employee (or, more likely, some barely English-literate
contractor in some third world "call center") who can be convinced
that the "photo" equals the "description."

Maddening is that eBay seems to communicate all or most of the coin
listing policy correspondence under the fake name "Heidi" which means
your account suspension notices and account reinstatement notices make
it appear that you are dealing with.

The terms "photo," "title," "subtitle," "gallery photo," and
"description" all have VERY SPECIFIC MEANINGS on ebay...Look at
"Search title and description," for example...it certainly doesn't
search the photos!
*******

So I suppose if I wanted to auction a PCI Morgan that said MS65 on the
label, I could write all that down, scan it, and include it as a photo in
the auction. Okay, because it wouldn't turn up in a search? Try it.