Ungraded Coins

Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded". The
left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the
edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a PCGS
slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in
claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if the
owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take advantage
of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that learning how to
grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want to sell any of
their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true or
not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:45:08 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded". The
left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the
edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a PCGS
slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in
claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if the
owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take advantage
of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that learning how to
grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want to sell any of
their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true or
not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

Ahhhh...you are concerned about advertising copy using a word that is
not an accurate representation of the word as it is generally
understood.

You have to stop thinking about that or it will consume you. How
about "professional"? If PCGS advertises that your coins are graded
by a professional, does that mean that the coin shop owner who assigns
a grade to a coin is not professional?


--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded".
The left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by
the edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a
PCGS slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in
claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if
the owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take advantage
of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that learning how to
grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want to sell any of
their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true
or not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

The hyperterm "graded" has been used for years as a synonym for "certified."
The real question is "certified as what, exactly?" Does it mean
"undamaged"? No, certainly not, as we see countless damaged coins in
"top-tier" slabs. Does it mean "uncleaned"? Certainly not, for the same
reason. Does it mean "genuine"? Probably, but don't quit your day job just
yet. Does it mean "We can now justify asking multiples of any price guide
you care to consult, while before, in its unslabbed state, the coin was
highly suspect and you'd take a big gamble paying even 50% of bid for it
and, oh, by the way, the Official ANA Grading Standards for United States
Coins is a work of fiction"? Absolutely.

James
'thus endeth the lesson from the Book of Cynicism for this day'

On Apr 10, 8:45*am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. *Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded". *The
left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the
edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a PCGS
slab. *("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") *

Not exactly an unbiased opinion, is it?
While I may miss the finer points of grading uncirculated coins (I
still can't tell the diference between MS61 and MS62), I sure can
grade circulated coins using accepted standards just as well as any
major TPG.
Grading companies seemingly exist more for non-collectors who wish to
"invest" in "rare" coins than for true collectors, although I'll admit
if I was going to go for a very expensive coin, I would want it
certified - not so much as for grade but to insure it is genuine (a
service that the major TPGs seem to be proficient at).

The grading service scam depends on convincing collectors that it is
unethical to grade their own coins.

Seems like the ANA is cutting their own throats by taking "endorsement"
money from the grading services.


"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded".
The left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by
the edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a
PCGS slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in
claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if
the owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take advantage
of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that learning how to
grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want to sell any of
their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true
or not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:45:08 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded".
The
left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the
edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a PCGS
slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded is
wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in
claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if
the
owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take advantage
of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that learning how to
grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want to sell any of
their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true
or
not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

Ahhhh...you are concerned about advertising copy using a word that is
not an accurate representation of the word as it is generally
understood.

I just thought it was a bit over the top, compared to the ad jargon you
usually see. I wouldn't be surprised if some collectors might actually be
insulted. Probably wouldn't last long though.


You have to stop thinking about that or it will consume you. How
about "professional"? If PCGS advertises that your coins are graded
by a professional, does that mean that the coin shop owner who assigns
a grade to a coin is not professional?

Perhaps *a* professional at administering a coin shop. But I would guess
that 99% of the coin shop owners are not professional graders. Most of
these occupations are usually excluded when one refers to "professional
people".

And I do try not to think about this often. Just thought it might prompt a
discussion. Maybe not.

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show. Flipping
the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which clearly implied
that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are essentially "ungraded".
The left panel on the page shows a hand holding a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by
the edge, while the right panel shows the hand holding the same coin in a
PCGS slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your coins if they're ungraded
is wishful thinking at best......") I think PCGS has gone a bit too far
in claiming that a coin not assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even
if the owner is a respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take
advantage of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that
learning how to grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they want
to sell any of their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad-- true
or not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

The hyperterm "graded" has been used for years as a synonym for
"certified." The real question is "certified as what, exactly?" Does it
mean "undamaged"? No, certainly not, as we see countless damaged coins in
"top-tier" slabs. Does it mean "uncleaned"? Certainly not, for the same
reason. Does it mean "genuine"? Probably, but don't quit your day job
just yet. Does it mean "We can now justify asking multiples of any price
guide you care to consult, while before, in its unslabbed state, the coin
was highly suspect and you'd take a big gamble paying even 50% of bid for
it and, oh, by the way, the Official ANA Grading Standards for United
States Coins is a work of fiction"? Absolutely.

James

I always considered "grading" to be a wear or preservation analysis, while
"certification" was more about authentification. A coin could be certified
as authentic without being assigned a grade. I don't mind being wrong.

"Helen Wallace" wrote in message
...
The grading service scam depends on convincing collectors that it is
unethical to grade their own coins.

My take from this particular ad was more along the lines of "uesless" or
"futile" or even "foolish", rather than "unethical".


Seems like the ANA is cutting their own throats by taking "endorsement"
money from the grading services.

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show.
Flipping the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which
clearly implied that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are
essentially "ungraded". The left panel on the page shows a hand holding
a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the edge, while the right panel shows the hand
holding the same coin in a PCGS slab. ("Expecting a fair price for your
coins if they're ungraded is wishful thinking at best......") I think
PCGS has gone a bit too far in claiming that a coin not assigned a grade
by them is "ungraded", even if the owner is a respected collector or
dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take
advantage of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that
learning how to grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they
want to sell any of their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad--
true or not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

The hyperterm "graded" has been used for years as a synonym for
"certified." The real question is "certified as what, exactly?" Does it
mean "undamaged"? No, certainly not, as we see countless damaged coins
in "top-tier" slabs. Does it mean "uncleaned"? Certainly not, for the
same reason. Does it mean "genuine"? Probably, but don't quit your day
job just yet. Does it mean "We can now justify asking multiples of any
price guide you care to consult, while before, in its unslabbed state,
the coin was highly suspect and you'd take a big gamble paying even 50%
of bid for it and, oh, by the way, the Official ANA Grading Standards for
United States Coins is a work of fiction"? Absolutely.

James

I always considered "grading" to be a wear or preservation analysis, while
"certification" was more about authentification. A coin could be
certified as authentic without being assigned a grade. I don't mind being
wrong.

When it all began, that's exactly what it was. Then grading greed entered
the picture, much like the apple of Garden of Eden fame.

Fr. James

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
Scanning the latest weekly coin newspaper I noticed an article about an
ANA-sponsored grading course planned for an upcoming coin show.
Flipping the next few pages, I came upon a full page PCGS ad which
clearly implied that coins not graded and slabbed (by PCGS) are
essentially "ungraded". The left panel on the page shows a hand holding
a shiny 1890-CC Morgan by the edge, while the right panel shows the
hand holding the same coin in a PCGS slab. ("Expecting a fair price
for your coins if they're ungraded is wishful thinking at best......")
I think PCGS has gone a bit too far in claiming that a coin not
assigned a grade by them is "ungraded", even if the owner is a
respected collector or dealer.

What message does this send to collectors who might want to take
advantage of one of these ANA grading courses, if they believe that
learning how to grade with the best of them can mean nothing if they
want to sell any of their unslabbed coins?

Preaching to the choir here, and all that, but I just found the ad--
true or not-- to reinforce the sign of the times.

The hyperterm "graded" has been used for years as a synonym for
"certified." The real question is "certified as what, exactly?" Does it
mean "undamaged"? No, certainly not, as we see countless damaged coins
in "top-tier" slabs. Does it mean "uncleaned"? Certainly not, for the
same reason. Does it mean "genuine"? Probably, but don't quit your day
job just yet. Does it mean "We can now justify asking multiples of any
price guide you care to consult, while before, in its unslabbed state,
the coin was highly suspect and you'd take a big gamble paying even 50%
of bid for it and, oh, by the way, the Official ANA Grading Standards
for United States Coins is a work of fiction"? Absolutely.

James

I always considered "grading" to be a wear or preservation analysis,
while "certification" was more about authentification. A coin could be
certified as authentic without being assigned a grade. I don't mind
being wrong.

When it all began, that's exactly what it was. Then grading greed entered
the picture, much like the apple of Garden of Eden fame.

Fr. James

More like the snake, IMO.