PING Jim Higgins ( Mesembria In Thrace)

Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Does anyone have the geographical location of Mesembria In Thrace and/or a
link for the pre-Roman history?


Jim, I am not sure about the exact location but I *think* it's somewhere in
the Eastern Thrace which is now under the occupation of the Turks.
It must be between the (eastern) Greek border (river Evros) and
Constantinople.
I am saying that because here in Greece there is a village named "New
Mesembria" build by people who left their homes in the first, the original
Mesembria when they were exchanged in 1922-1923.
Sorry I can't give you more precise info but I'll try and ask some of the
locals if the know the actual, the Turkish name of their old village.


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


--
Life's tough.
It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne

gogu wrote:
Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Does anyone have the geographical location of Mesembria In Thrace
and/or a link for the pre-Roman history?


Jim, I am not sure about the exact location but I *think* it's
somewhere in the Eastern Thrace which is now under the occupation of
the Turks. It must be between the (eastern) Greek border (river Evros) and
Constantinople.
I am saying that because here in Greece there is a village named "New
Mesembria" build by people who left their homes in the first, the
original Mesembria when they were exchanged in 1922-1923.
Sorry I can't give you more precise info but I'll try and ask some of
the locals if the know the actual, the Turkish name of their old
village.


--
Life's tough.
It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne


Mesembria-Zone was a colony of Samothrace, built at the end of the 7th
century B.C., on the SE coast of Thrace, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis. The site is mentioned with two names because it was
originally known as Mesembria, while in the light of the recent
archaeological evidence it has been identified as Zone, which also was a
colony of Samothrace. The city flourished in the 5th and 4th centuries B.C.
but started to decline during the Macedonian occupation and later, in Roman
times, when the roads were constructed. There is, though, evidence of
sporadic habitation on the site as late as the 6th century A.D.

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:
Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Does anyone have the geographical location of Mesembria In Thrace
and/or a link for the pre-Roman history?


Jim, I am not sure about the exact location but I *think* it's
somewhere in the Eastern Thrace which is now under the occupation of
the Turks. It must be between the (eastern) Greek border (river Evros)
and
Constantinople.
I am saying that because here in Greece there is a village named "New
Mesembria" build by people who left their homes in the first, the
original Mesembria when they were exchanged in 1922-1923.
Sorry I can't give you more precise info but I'll try and ask some of
the locals if the know the actual, the Turkish name of their old
village.


--
Life's tough.
It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne


Mesembria-Zone was a colony of Samothrace, built at the end of the 7th
century B.C., on the SE coast of Thrace, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis.

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under Turkey
today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

The site is mentioned with two names because it was originally known as
Mesembria, while in the light of the recent archaeological evidence it has
been identified as Zone, which also was a colony of Samothrace. The city
flourished in the 5th and 4th centuries B.C. but started to decline during
the Macedonian occupation and later, in Roman times, when the roads were
constructed. There is, though, evidence of sporadic habitation on the site
as late as the 6th century A.D.

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...



I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Does anyone have the geographical location of Mesembria In Thrace and/or
a link for the pre-Roman history?


Jim, I am not sure about the exact location but I *think* it's somewhere
in the Eastern Thrace which is now under the occupation of the Turks.
It must be between the (eastern) Greek border (river Evros) and
Constantinople.
I am saying that because here in Greece there is a village named "New
Mesembria" build by people who left their homes in the first, the original
Mesembria when they were exchanged in 1922-1923.
Sorry I can't give you more precise info but I'll try and ask some of the
locals if the know the actual, the Turkish name of their old village.


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


--
Life's tough.
It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne



Thanks for the info to you and Ed Hendricks. I had been Googling but I
wasn't asking the right questions (arrangement of search words), sigh. The
Truth *is* out there but you have to ask the right question, so I asked in
groups that I thought might have folks who would know.

My reason for asking, besides wanting to know where my coin came from, was
the way I have my very modest ancients collection arranged. I have a large,
rectangular photo album with clear "magnetic" cover pages. I have a coin,
the graphic of the coin (usually from reputable eBay dealers, sometimes from
regular dealers online) and a concise history of the Emperor and his reign
(or a brief history of the times if pre-imperial) printed out on 1-3 pages
(or 4-5 in rare cases-that is one I really like). All told I have about 33
coins, mostly Roman with a few Greek coins too. The coins are in tiny
ziplock bags so I can feel them when I go through my album and read the coin
and reign summaries. I enjoy the feeling of holding real history in my hand
and thinking about what has gone before. FWIW I've been a Roman history
buff since childhood and a few years ago bought (modern reproductions of) a
Roman gladius and a pugio. Both are combat weapons, not display weapons,
with sharp edges and sharp points. Maybe that is what goes with being an
ancient history groupie? "Modern" coins to me are those after about
1000A.D. :-))

Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

I thought just like you but obviously I must investigate it a bit more.
Let's see if I can find something during this weekend, I'll be out for a
wedding and one of the families is from ... New Mesembria!
I hope I'll have some more details Monday.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...

"gogu" wrote in message
...
Ï "Jim Higgins" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Does anyone have the geographical location of Mesembria In Thrace and/or
a link for the pre-Roman history?


Jim, I am not sure about the exact location but I *think* it's somewhere
in the Eastern Thrace which is now under the occupation of the Turks.
It must be between the (eastern) Greek border (river Evros) and
Constantinople.
I am saying that because here in Greece there is a village named "New
Mesembria" build by people who left their homes in the first, the
original Mesembria when they were exchanged in 1922-1923.
Sorry I can't give you more precise info but I'll try and ask some of the
locals if the know the actual, the Turkish name of their old village.


Thanks for the info to you and Ed Hendricks. I had been Googling but I
wasn't asking the right questions (arrangement of search words), sigh.
The Truth *is* out there but you have to ask the right question, so I
asked in groups that I thought might have folks who would know.

Hello Jim!

I believe Ed's info is more accurate than mine but as I said in my reply to
him I would like to investigate more the relation of the ancient "Mesembria"
and the "New Mesembria".
It's strange that if the city is where Eric said (and it looks he is
correct), why those Greek refugees of the '20s coming from ... East Thrace
have build a new city and called it ... New Mesembria?
In all cases here in Greece where you see a city/village called New ...
something, the story is that the city's/village's inhabitants are refugees
from an homonymous city in today's Turkey and they came in Greece in the
'20s during the exchange of populations. My wife is from a city called New
Epivat and they all came from a city in (coastal) East Thrace called in
those times ... Epivat! Of course today has a Turkish name and it is called
Selim Pasa if I am not mistaken...
Well, I hope to have some more precise info Monday.
A nice weekend to everybody!

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


My reason for asking, besides wanting to know where my coin came from, was
the way I have my very modest ancients collection arranged. I have a
large, rectangular photo album with clear "magnetic" cover pages. I have
a coin, the graphic of the coin (usually from reputable eBay dealers,
sometimes from regular dealers online) and a concise history of the
Emperor and his reign (or a brief history of the times if pre-imperial)
printed out on 1-3 pages (or 4-5 in rare cases-that is one I really like).
All told I have about 33 coins, mostly Roman with a few Greek coins too.
The coins are in tiny ziplock bags so I can feel them when I go through my
album and read the coin and reign summaries. I enjoy the feeling of
holding real history in my hand and thinking about what has gone before.
FWIW I've been a Roman history buff since childhood and a few years ago
bought (modern reproductions of) a Roman gladius and a pugio. Both are
combat weapons, not display weapons, with sharp edges and sharp points.
Maybe that is what goes with being an ancient history groupie? "Modern"
coins to me are those after about 1000A.D. :-))

Ed Hendricks wrote:


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.



The only Messembria I know of is the modern town of Nessebur in
Bulgaria. I was there a few years ago and bought a couple of books,
one of which states:

"The first record of the town of MESSAMBRIA (today Nessebur) was made
by Herodotus when he described the march of the Persian king Darius
against the Scythians in 513 B.C. Crossing the land west of the Black
Sea, the Persians conquered the Thracian tribes Nipsea and Scirmian who
inhabited the surroundings of MESSAMBRIA and Apollonia (present day
Sozopol). Thracians lived on the small peninsula long before the end
of the 6th century B.C. when Greek colonists settled there and founded
a Hellenic colony. 'Next comes MESSAMBRIA,' ancient geographer Strabo
(1st century B.C.) wrote, 'earlier named Meesabria, that is town of
Melsa, because its founder was called Melsa, and "bria" is the Thracian
for town.'

....

After the final conquest of the Balkan Peninsula, and the Thracian
lands in particular, Messambria, in the last 1st century known as
MESSEMBRIA, fell within the province of Moesia. After 86 A.D. it was
in Lower Moesia and from the mid 2nd century in the province of
Thrace."


Hope this clarifies things...

~Anka

Anka wrote:
'Next comes MESSAMBRIA,' ancient geographer Strabo
(1st century B.C.) wrote, 'earlier named Meesabria, that is town of
Melsa, because its founder was called Melsa, and "bria" is the Thracian
for town.'



Reading this again, I checked the spelling of the town Meesabria and do
believe that it's a typo (in the book by Velizar Velkov quoted above).
Common sense would tell you it should be Melsabria, based on its
derivation.

Sorry for the confusion.



~Anka

Mesembria is a town on the Greek Aegean coast, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis, in Greek Thrace.

Tony

"Anka" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ed Hendricks wrote:


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.



The only Messembria I know of is the modern town of Nessebur in
Bulgaria. I was there a few years ago and bought a couple of books,
one of which states:

"The first record of the town of MESSAMBRIA (today Nessebur) was made
by Herodotus when he described the march of the Persian king Darius
against the Scythians in 513 B.C. Crossing the land west of the Black
Sea, the Persians conquered the Thracian tribes Nipsea and Scirmian who
inhabited the surroundings of MESSAMBRIA and Apollonia (present day
Sozopol). Thracians lived on the small peninsula long before the end
of the 6th century B.C. when Greek colonists settled there and founded
a Hellenic colony. 'Next comes MESSAMBRIA,' ancient geographer Strabo
(1st century B.C.) wrote, 'earlier named Meesabria, that is town of
Melsa, because its founder was called Melsa, and "bria" is the Thracian
for town.'

...

After the final conquest of the Balkan Peninsula, and the Thracian
lands in particular, Messambria, in the last 1st century known as
MESSEMBRIA, fell within the province of Moesia. After 86 A.D. it was
in Lower Moesia and from the mid 2nd century in the province of
Thrace."


Hope this clarifies things...

~Anka





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