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-   -   Monaco on French Colony. (http://www.collectingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=310676)

rod222 March 15th 11 10:44 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 

A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?


This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?


http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm




Stan March 15th 11 11:31 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
On Mar 15, 6:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were
commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean
Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux
Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel
("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus)
as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the
conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON
COVER.

My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as
valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise
gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French
Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed,
about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro
value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes,
which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160
euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp
prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a
Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in
European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at
$42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less
for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on
the right stamp.

Stan

rod222 March 15th 11 02:56 PM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
Wow Stan,
that is impressive in it's treatment,
very well done, thank you,
of course I'll address it with the caveat
of "what someone is prepared to pay"
Thumbs up.
Rod



"Stan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk
valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were
commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean
Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux
Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel
("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus)
as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the
conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON
COVER.

My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as
valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise
gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French
Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed,
about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro
value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes,
which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160
euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp
prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a
Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in
European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at
$42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less
for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on
the right stamp.

Stan



Richard Thouin[_2_] March 15th 11 04:46 PM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
In article d.com,
"rod222" wrote:

Wow Stan,
that is impressive in it's treatment,
very well done, thank you,
of course I'll address it with the caveat
of "what someone is prepared to pay"
Thumbs up.
Rod



"Stan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk
valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were
commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean
Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux
Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel
("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus)
as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the
conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON
COVER.

My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as
valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise
gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French
Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed,
about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro
value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes,
which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160
euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp
prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a
Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in
European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at
$42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less
for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on
the right stamp.

Stan


Hi

To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury
Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros.
Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The
market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French
stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before
1860.

Beautiful!


Richard

Droger Jean-Paul March 15th 11 05:47 PM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
Hi

To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury
Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros.
Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The
market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French
stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before
1860.

Beautiful!

Yes Richard this is right! I have the Armand MATHIEU catalogue for
cancellations on such stamps (named type Sage in France) from Algeria
and French Post Offices abroad, issues in 1985! It schould be the best
catalogue for such cancellations.

For Monaco, this cancellation (called type 18 in France) is given for a
value of 250 F (of 1985)... I find this value for common
cancellations in most French Post Offices in Turquey that are
sometimes sell nearly 30/40 ¤.

Here you have a luxus piece and I think that you can ask 40¤ perhaps
50¤ for this very nice cancellation ... but you must find a buyer and
this is an other question because collectors for cancellations on
stamps (and not on letter) begin to be scarce here in France!!

best wishes and have a good afternoon on other side of the great
ocean!!

--
Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par
wanadoo; to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama
with wanadoo;




[email protected] March 16th 11 01:54 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
On Mar 15, 10:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Stanley Gibbons do list them separately, and I make this No Z156. CV
GBP 45 in 2006, but I doubt whether you could double that for your
pair given that only one is fully postmarked (if, indeed, anyone pays
CV for anything anyway.)

Chris

rod222 March 16th 11 04:22 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 

Thanks Richard.


"Richard Thouin" wrote in message
...
In article d.com,
"rod222" wrote:

Wow Stan,
that is impressive in it's treatment,
very well done, thank you,
of course I'll address it with the caveat
of "what someone is prepared to pay"
Thumbs up.
Rod



"Stan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 6:44 am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw.
1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk
valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were
commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean
Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux
Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel
("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus)
as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the
conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON
COVER.

My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as
valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise
gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French
Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed,
about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro
value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes,
which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160
euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp
prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a
Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in
European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at
$42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less
for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on
the right stamp.

Stan


Hi

To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury
Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros.
Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The
market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French
stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before
1860.

Beautiful!


Richard




rod222 March 16th 11 04:25 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 


Thank you Jean-Paul,
and thank you for your generous wishes,
may I echo your blessings.
Rodney

"Droger Jean-Paul" wrote in message
...
Hi

To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury Catalogue
2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros. Market
price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The market is not
very large as most people are not even aware that French stamps were used
in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before 1860.

Beautiful!

Yes Richard this is right! I have the Armand MATHIEU catalogue for
cancellations on such stamps (named type Sage in France) from Algeria and
French Post Offices abroad, issues in 1985! It schould be the best
catalogue for such cancellations.

For Monaco, this cancellation (called type 18 in France) is given for a
value of 250 F (of 1985)... I find this value for common cancellations
in most French Post Offices in Turquey that are sometimes sell nearly
30/40 ¤.

Here you have a luxus piece and I think that you can ask 40¤ perhaps 50¤
for this very nice cancellation ... but you must find a buyer and this is
an other question because collectors for cancellations on stamps (and not
on letter) begin to be scarce here in France!!

best wishes and have a good afternoon on other side of the great ocean!!

--
Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par wanadoo;
to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama with
wanadoo;






rod222 March 16th 11 04:29 AM

Monaco on French Colony.
 

Thanks Chris,
for general issues I would agree,
but for moi, I pay over catalogue if it is a particular piece I desire.

This would be in that category, providing one could find the right purchaser
I would think.
I think it is an attractive brace of stamps.
rodney



wrote in message
...
On Mar 15, 10:44 am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk
valued
separately?

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk
valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Stanley Gibbons do list them separately, and I make this No Z156. CV
GBP 45 in 2006, but I doubt whether you could double that for your
pair given that only one is fully postmarked (if, indeed, anyone pays
CV for anything anyway.)

Chris



ilico March 18th 11 02:45 PM

Monaco on French Colony.
 
On Mar 15, 10:44*am, "rod222" wrote:
A query from a colleague

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as
French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886
french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued
separately?

http://cjoint.com/data1/1dplRJgMddx.htm


Hi Rod,

Monaco used Sardinia stamps 1851 - 1860, French 1860 - 1885, and
started his own "Prince Charles III" stamps from 1885.
There is a page from "Yvert & Tellier Stamp Classiques Du Monde
2005" (sorry not very good scan)

http://cjoint.com/?2dspLve7BHo

You need to recognise first are your stamps Type I or Type II?
There is No: 78a - se-tenant of both Types - very expensive. Hope
you've got this ;)
In this catalogue there is nothing about cancels.

Hope this helps a little bit

Tommy


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