Unfounded Concern?

[RAR]

Has there ever been a case where a dealer has sold counterfiet large size
US Currency. I would assume since it is still legal tender it would be
illegal to posses such items, even if you identify it as counterfiet. Or
hasn't there been much counterfieting in this area? is the primary concern
washing rather than fakes?


thanks

[JSTONE9352]

>Has there ever been a case where a dealer has sold counterfiet large size
>US Currency. I would assume since it is still legal tender it would be
>illegal to posses such items, even if you identify it as counterfiet. Or
>hasn't there been much counterfieting in this area? is the primary concern
>washing rather than fakes?
>
>
>thanks
>
>
>I've never heard of a dealer being prosecuted for selling them. There are
probably some fakes out there however.

I would be more concerned with buying
a large size note that was been washed
or "improved" in some other way to
increase its value than in buying an
outright counterfeit.>
>

[Darren]

On 17 Aug 2003 17:48:19 GMT, (Coin Saver)
wrote:

>>From: RAR
>{post portioned}
>> ... counterfiet large size US Currency. I would assume ... it would be
>illegal to possess ... is the primary concern washing rather than fakes?>
>
>a side-note opinion here: if the purpose of "washing" a Note is to present it
>as something it is not, it might be considered "technically borderline" a
>counterfeit even though it was originally a genuine Note.
>
>I present this almost with tongue-in-cheek, but I might remind that the Federal
>Reserve definition of 'counterfeit' includes the term "with intent to defraud",
>and further back up my contention with the following: If I "washed" a One
>Dollar Bill to the point of where I could use the paper to print on it a
>different denomination, then I am in the process of counterfeiting.

I could do with some of that washing powder for my 'white' shirts!

>If I, therefore, try to "wash" a note for purposes to present it as something
>it is not, I might be at a point where the Note is "technically borderline" a
>counterfeit, or within the steps of processing a counterfeit Note.

>Where might this "grey area" line lie?

I would expect the line is crossed when instead of deface the note
through repeated washing you begin to add ink to the note/piece of
paper.


I'm sure generally some law would have been broken regarding an intent
to defraud but I don't think it'd be called counterfeit and I imagine
the issuing authority wouldn't be concerned since it could still be
exchanged at face value.

Laundering money... now that's something else again...


Darren

[Ken Barr]

In article >,
(jimmyfc) wrote:

[snip]
> Dealers have sold counterfeit items as genuine from time to time. As
> for selling counterfeits as counterfeits: From reading Chambliss's
> book, I get the impression that this is done quietly, but not at
> public auction. There is also an apparent unresolved legal issue
> involving certain notes. Counterfeits from the 1860s and early 70s
> were returned to the holder canceled as counterfeit. Such items were
> legal to own at the time, but, to the best of my knowledge, there has
> not been a court ruling about them under current federal law.
> Modern counterfeits of large size notes are another matter. I don't
> know if there ever have been any counterfeits of ls notes aimed at
> collectors. Fakes of legal tender currency, aimed at collectors, seem
> to be in the form of alterations of common varieties into rarer ones.

Contemporary counterfeits of National Bank Notes are highly
sought by some collectors ... there is one bank (Saint Nicholas
National Bank of New York, NY) where there are many more bogus
Lazy Dueces known than genuine examples. They generally manage
to trade hands without appearing in a showcase or auction listing.

--
Ken Barr Numismatics
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 (souvenir cards, MPC, Hickey Bros tokens)
408-272-3247 Next show: Fremont CC 08/16-17 (no table)
ADVANCED NOTICE: ANA World's Fair of Money, San Jose, CA 7/27-31/2005

[whohah]

On further recollection, it was a $20. Can't remember the bank, though, but
it was first charter design.

Jay
"whohah" > wrote in message
...
> I once bought a counterfeit National ($5 maybe??) because the dealer who
> sold it to me told me it was counterfeit and that it appeared to be one
made
> in the National era. As I recall, it even had in manuscript "Counterfeit"
> and "U.S. v.[don't remember the name]" on its face. So, it may have been
> used as evidence in a trial.
<snipped>

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